CONVEYANCE OF PROVISIONS IN MEN OF WAR.
MR SHARMAN CRAWFORD moved
as an Amendment to the Motion, that the
Speaker do leave the Chair, for the House
to go into a Committee of Supply -
"An humble Address to Her Majesty, praying
that She would be graciously pleased to authorise
and direct that such ships of Her Majesty's Navy,
as can be spared from the regular duty, should be
applied, under such regulations as Her Majesty
might deem advisable, to the accommodation of
Merchants in the conveying of corn and provisions
from Foreign Countries into the ports of the
United Kingdom."
The hon. Member observed, that starvation
was extended to all parts of Ireland, and
that want of shipping to import food caused
this extension. In America, the produce
of the last harvest was 700,000,000 bushels.
There was disposable for foreign
countries about 400,000,000 bushels, equal
to 50,000,000 quarters, of which, probably,
about 17,000,000 might be obtained for
this country. If food was provided for
4,000,000 of people, and each of those
4,000,000 required, upon an average, 1lb.
of Indian meal per day for 200 days, it
would require 13,500,000 bushels, or about
1,500,000 quarters only. The want of
shipping to convey food to this country,
raised the prices to an enormous amount.
In New York, the freight of corn last year
was 8d. per bushel; this year it was
1s.10d. In New Orleans, it was 10d. last
year; and 1s.10 1/2d. now. At
Constantinople, last year, freight was 7s.
per quarter; this year, 15s. At Odessa,
7s. last year; 16s2d. this year. At Venice
6s. last year; 13s. this year. At
Alexandria, 6s. last year; 19s. this year.
An enormous increase of prices arose from
this enormous cost of freight. Corn could
be bought on the Danube at 30s. per
quarter, whilst the price at Liverpool,
last week, was 72s.6d. Ships were not to
be had. He found that a mercantile house
had sent an order to Baltimore for flour,
with an unlimited power as to price; and
two letter had been received from
Baltimore by this firm, stating that no
ships were to be had in which to send over
flour. The ships had been taken off by
France and Belgium; there had been 400 at
Marseilles the last fortnight. All grain
was 50 per cent higher in our own ports
than in the ports of America. These were
the reasons which induced him to hope that
the Government would in some manner apply
our ships of war tothe conveyance of corn
from foreign parts. He was as unwilling as
any one to interfere with the principle of
trade: but there were periods of calamity
when such principles must give way. He
would propose, not that the Government
should itself employ the ships, but that
they should place ships at the disposal of
private merchants for the conveyance of
grain from foreign ports, receiving tenders
from merchants. It would, undoubtedly, be
dangerous to interfere, without judgement
and discretion, with the enterprise of
private traders; but measures, he thought
might be devised for the purpose. If
Ireland were attacked by a foreign enemy,
ships of war would be sent against that
foreign enemy; and why should they not be
employed to relieve her from that greater
enemy by which she was now invaded? Her
Majesty's fleet was paid for by the people,
and the people should have the use of it.
The very reasons which had induced the
Government to suspend the navigation laws,
would justify this measure; the very same
principle applied to both. There was no
impediment to plenty in this country other
than the want of means of conveying to the
distressed people of this country the
produce of other countries; and we must do,
by means of our ships of war, what we could
not do by other means. He did not bring
forward this proposition in a hostile
spirit; he gave the Government credit for
their exertions to relieve the distress in
Ireland; and he hoped they would adopt his
proposition, and that they would endeavour
to devise means by which the ships of the
Navy might be applied as he suggested.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said: The question
embodied in the present Motion was brought
under the consideration of the Government
some time ago, and on the whole, after some
consideration, we think it more advisable
not to adopt the proposition. I would say,
in the first place (perhaps the hon.
Gentleman has already got the information),
that a great number of steam vessels and
other ships are now employed in the relief
service between this country and Ireland.
The number of those vessels at present
amounts to thirty steam vessels, twelve
sailing vessels, and five depot ships. With
regard to the question which the hon.
Gentleman has raised, namely, that of
sending vessels of war into foreign ports
to obtain supplies, I think the hon.
Gentleman has not gone int oa correct
calculation of how much could be done by
Her Majesty's Navy. The hon. Gentleman has
talked of 1,500,000 quarters coming from
America: and that, I am afraid, is an
estimate beyond the truth. The quantity
that could be brought in ships of war would
be a small proportion indeed of the
estimate he has made. In the first place,
it would be necessary to fit up those ships
of war in a manner totally different from
their present state, and the expense and
time that would be taken up in that
operation would be considerable. The
fitting up of the BELLEISLE cost 19,000l.;
it takes a considerable time before vessels
of war can be so fitted up; and of course
it would take similar time and similar
expense to adapt them again to the service
of the Navy. If we had ten thousand tons of
shipping so employed, it would be as much
as we could expect; and they would not
bring more than about fifty thousand
quarters, so that no result could be
obtained that would be at all adequate to
the expense that would be caused. It would
have one certain consequence - namely, that
when it was once known and proclaimed that
the vessels of Her Majesty's fleet would be
employed in this service, it would be a
great discouragemant to the merchant
service, and possibly prevent them from
sending ships to foreign countries; and I
think you must expect greater efforts from
individual enterprise than could possibly
be made by Her Majesty's ships, even after
some months had been lost in fitting them
up at great expense. My own calculation in
last September was, that not less than from
twelve to fifteen hundred ships would be
required in a service of this kind. Of
course, if you discourage the merchant
service by proclaiming that the ships of
Her Majesty's Navy will be so employed, you
must expect that there will be a less
number of merchant ships in the ports of
America and at Odessa, and freights,
instead of being lower, may be considerably
higher than at the present moment. The hon.
Gentleman does not know the difficulty
of bringing food from the United States to
this country. It is not alone the
difficulty of getting ships at New York to
bring it here, but there is also the
difficulty of conveying the Indian corn to
New York, especially that grown in the
Western States. The Indian corn which costs
but seven-pence a bushel in some of those
remote States, costs several shillings
before it arrives at any port of
embarkation. And while there is a great
demand, there is an insufficiency of boats
to bring the corn down the Mississippi and
the other rivers, on the banks of which the
corn grows. There are not boats enough, so
that it would be not sufficient merely to
have ships for the purpose. But the great
objection is that, after an expensive
effort, and considerable loss of time, it
would not at all produce a result which
would be commensurate with that expense and
loss of time, and that you would thereby
give great discouragement to private
enterprise. I can assure the hon.
Gentleman, that if I thought the use of the
Navy would be beneficial, and tend to
cheapen food in this country, I should be
as ready to direct the employment of the
Navy in this service as to direct its
employment in the conveyance of food
between this country and Ireland. I trust,
therefore, that the hon. Gentleman will be
satisfied with this explanation, and that
he will not press the matter further.
Mr SHARMAN CRAWFORD observed, that the
noble Lord had misunderstood him on one
point, and that was, with reference to the
supply from America. His impression was,
that seventeen millions of quarters could
be spared in America, and he thought that
about one million and a half of quarters
could be supplied to Ireland. The hon.
Gentleman then withdrew his Motion.
LORD JOHN RUSSELL wished to mention a
proposition that had been made to him by
some of the Society of Friends who had been
engaged most largely in giving relief to
Ireland. They stated to him their belief
that contributions, were being raised in
America to purchase corn, and they asked to
have a ship of war for its conveyance
placed at their disposal. The Government
declined a literal compliance with that
proposal; but they said if the corn was
subscribed for and purchased, the
Government would be ready to pay the
freight for its conveyance.
Mr KERR inquired of some system of
emigration could not be connected with the
introduction of foreign corn. If persons,
for instance, were allowed to go abroad in
men of war, or in any other way that would
suit the Government, a great number of
people might go that could not be supported
in Ireland, and the ships could bring back
a return cargo of corn.
LORD JOHN RUSSELL was not disposed to
give any direct encouragement to the scheme
which the hon. Member proposed. He would
remind the hon. Member, that by the Irish
poor law there was, in certain cases, a
power given to supply funds for emigration.
With regard to vessels bringing corn to
this country, comprising foreign vessels,
he would remark that, under the Act for the
suspension of the navigation laws, those
foreign vessels would be at liberty to
carry out passengers, but they could not
take merchandise. Those vessels would not
be affected by the navigation laws,
provided they confined themselves to
passengers.
Amendment negatived.
