PASSENGER ACTS - EMIGRANT SHIPS.
RESOLUTION
Mr. MOORE, in rising to draw attention
to the state of the law regarding
emigrants; and to move - "That in the
opinion of this House, the Passenger
Acts require revision and reform", said,
he felt bound to congratulate the Board
of Trade on the fact that, owing to the
labours of the Select Committee of last
year, considerable improvements had
been made since last year, when many
complaints had been made as to defective
passenger accommodation. Very desirable
changes had been made in this
respect by most of the great Steamship
Companies whose boats ran between
Liverpool and New York; and one line
in particular - the White Star - had made
great strides in the right direction, and
was being followed in the way of improvement
by the National and Allen
Lines; but these improvements did not,
of course, alter the very unsatisfactory
state of the law. Much had also been
done for Irish emigrants by Miss O'Brien,
who had opened a home for them at
Queenstown, and had inspected many of
the vessels. But neither the efforts of
the benevolent, nor the improved condition
of emigration introduced by the
Steamship Companies, would be wholly
effectual as long as the law remained
unaltered. In spite of all that had been
done, as many as 200 complaints of overcrowding
had been received within the
last two years in the case of vessels
arriving at New York; and he had the
authority of Miss O'Brien, who had taken
great interest in this matter, for saying
that, in these cases, no women could
keep her character above reproach in
one of these crowded voyages. Beyond
that, the state of things that occasionally
prevailed on board emigrant ships might
be gathered from the report issued officially
from Castle Garden, New York,
of what had occurred on one of the best
steamers between that port and Liverpool.
The New York officials said, with
reference to this vessel, that they had
carefully inquired into the facts of the
case, and found that the bread supplied
to the emigrants was sour, that the
potatoes were not good, that the sleeping
accommodation was promiscuous,
and that the conduct of the chief steward
was reprehensible. In fact, the circumstances
made public in this case fully
justified the complaints made last year.
The laws of the United States respecting
emigrants had recently been altered; but
those of this country were still very
inadequate, and he would urge upon the
Government to take steps to effect concerted
action on the part, not only of
England and America, but of other
European countries. By some strange
anomaly the Passenger Acts did not
apply to "short" ships - that was, to
vessels carrying fewer than 50 passengers.
Besides short ships, homeward-bound
vessels, and vessels plying to European
ports, were also exempt from the provisions
of the Passenger Act. He did
not see why the same protection was not
necessary in the case of a ship coming
home; and then, if complaints were
made, we were ourselves in a position to
inquire into and remedy the grievance.
In reference to the point, he had received
a letter, detailing the shameful
treatment by the chief steward of a poor
girl on board one of these homeward-bound
vessels, and which showed the
necessity for extending to passengers
coming home the same protection which
was given to passengers going out. With
regard to the third portion of his case, or
vessels plying between European ports,
he last year called attention to the very
bad state of the Scandinavian traffic.
He did not wish to lean very heavily
upon the owners, because he believed
they would be willing to set things
right; but he received his information
from such high authority that he felt
bound to bring the subject forward. The
President of the Board of Trade sent
out an officer to inquire into the matter,
and he reported that the accommodation
was very bad, in fact, of the worst kind
possible, and that there was no attempt
at a division of the sexes, nor even of
individual berths. That was last autumn,
the slack time of the year, and the officer
recommended that he should be sent
out again. That was done, and it was
found that a considerable improvement
had been made. The vessels of one or
two Companies were in a very satisfactory
state. He had heard complaints of
the boats plying between Hamburg and
London, in which passengers spent two
days and two nights on deck crowded
together like swine. Over the emigration
carried on by foreign Lines, the President
of the Board of Trade would, no
doubt, say he had no jurisdiction. The
fact, however, was that the agents disguised
from the emigrants that they
were to be transhipped; but when the
President of the Board of Trade asked
any questions, they said they only booked
to European ports, and that the Passenger
Acts did not apply. But he held
in his hand a ticket which professed that
the passengers should be carried direct
from London to New York. In these
steamers there was no adequate provision
for the decency, comfort, or health of
the emigrants; and there was no reason
why British emigrants should be carried
by a circuitous route to America. He
complained especially in this connection
of the Compagne Transatlantique de Havre,
and of the two Antwerp Compaines -
the Red Star and the Wnite Cross. They
had in the House already some details in
connection with the Royal Netherlands
Steamship Company in the case of the
Nemesis, a vessel which had carried several
hundred emigrants to New York from
Amsterdam. From the report of the
emigration agent at New York, it was
shown that the passengers were most
unhappy during the whole journey,
which lasted 16 days. Ten children
died on the voyage, 11 had died since,
and a number of the adult passengers
had to be taken to the emigration
hospital on landing. It was further
said that a ship's load had never before
been received in such a wretched
condition; that the water furnished to
the passengers was bad, and that the
officers and employes of the ship were
careless of the comfort and welfare of
the emigrants. Besides all this, it
was also stated by the agent that directly
it became known to the officers
of the vessel that an inquiry was to be
instituted, the cable was slipped in the
night, and the vessel disappeared. He
maintained that this country, in the interests
of its own traffic, should exercise
the strictest supervision over the emigration
agents here, who, escaping all the
regulations in force applying to agents
shipping direct from British ports, represented
to the Board of Trade that they
were booking passengers to European
ports only, when they were really
arranging for their passage to America.
The present powers of the Board ought,
he contended, to be extended, so that
passengers thus treated might have the
protection of the law. Then, better
accommodation ought to be provided for
foreign emigrants passing through this
country, for the total disregard of all the
necessary arrangements as to their comfort
on landing was most shameful and
deserving of the utmost condemnation.
These remarks especially applied to the
case of those foreign emigrants who
shipped from England and Scotland,
through the three great channels of
emigration, the ports of Leith, Hull,
and London. In the 10 months ending
last February, the number of foreign
emigrants entering Hull en route to
America was 58,000. As regarded the
accommodation of these people on shore
it was reported to be unsatisfactory
that Mr. Gray was sent down by the
Board of Trade to inquire into it, and he
discovered that many of the emigrants
were entirely without sleeping accommodation,
and were found lying about
on their boxes in the open air, without
any roof covering over them, and the
accommodation in other respects was
most deplorable and required alteration.
In London, the position of foreign emigrants
was still more pitiable, for they
became the prey of the worst description
of lodging-house keepers, who, finding
it to their interest to detain their lodgers
as long as they possibly could, frequently
allowed the vessels to sail without them,
and he knew of young girls being detained
in this way until their ruin was
completed. But a more iniquitous practice
was this - the lodging-house keepers,
who received from the ahipping Company
1s. 6d. to 1s. 9d. per day for each
emigrant, were in the habit of subcontracting
for the maintenance of the
emigrants in small starvation lodging-houses,
at a rate at which it was impossible
that they could be fed. He knew
of one case in which an emigrant was
detained absolutely five weeks in town
for a ship. The police had no power to
interfere; and, therefore, it was imperative
that the Government should take
some action in the matter. Either these
establishments should be brought under
the immediate control of the police, or,
better still, Government should provide
a general depot at some spot down the
River, for the reception of emigrants
while waiting to be transhipped to the
Atlantic Line vessels. The Board of
Trade, too, should take care that these
ships carried steady and experienced
surgeons, and not mere boys fresh from
the medical school. Their position should
be improved, and they should be made
more independent. At present, their pay
was small; but, no doubt, that was because
of their youth, and the fact that
they came to the ship generally straight
from school without experience. He
thought the time has come when, for
reasons of humanity, the large streams
of emigrants coming from abroad should
be saved from lodging-house and from
infectious diseases. There should also
be established an efficient system of
inspection. The character of the ships
should be improved and depots established
for the reception of the emigrants
during their stay in London and other
ports. The hon. Member concluded by
moving the Resolution of which he had
given Notice.
Amendment proposed,
To leave out from the word "That" to the
end of the Question, in order to add the words
"in the opinion of this House, the Passenger
Acts require revision and reform," - (Mr.
Moore,)
- instead thereof.
Question proposed, "That the words
proposed to be left out stand part of the
Question."
Mr. CHAMBERLAIN said, he
thought his hon. Friend the Member for
Clonmel (Mr. Moore), far from needing
an apology, had done good service in
calling attention to this subject, in which,
as was well known, he had taken great
interest. He rejoiced to hear his hon.
Friend say at the outset that he recognized
the very great importance of the
new arrangements that had been made
for the convenience, comfort, and health
of emigrant passengers on the great
Atlantic Lines. The hon. Member paid
a special compliment to one Line; but
his (Mr. Chamberlain's) own inspection
led him to believe that the same favourable
opinion might be expressed in regard
to the great majority of Lines going
from England to the United States. As
far as he (Mr. Chamberlain) knew, there
was now only one Line which had
hitherto failed to comply with the
recommendations that were made some
time ago by the Board of Trade, and
that Line, he hoped, would not be long
in following the example of the others.
His hon. Friend had recognized, and he
(Mr. Chamberlain), also, was quite prepared
to recognize, the services of Miss
O'Brien in this matter; although, at the
same time, it was only fair to say that
she commenced her agitation in connection
with the subject by bringing very
serious charges indeed against one of the
great American Lines - charges which
further examination showed were, at all
events, immensely exaggerated, and which
she subsequently withdrew in a most
honourable way. These seemed to be a
little confusion in the mind of his hon.
Friend as to what a revision of the
Passenger Acts might be expected to do.
For instance, he had called attention to
one or two painful cases happening on
board British or foreign ships in which
women had been subjected to outrage,
and passengers insulted by officers of
the ships; but he (Mr. Chamberlain)
would point out to the hon. Member
that the law was already amply sufficient
to deal with these cases. No alteration
of the law would enable them to insure
that every officer of every ship should be
civil and obliging; but if a man, under
any circumstances, committed a ruffianly
act, ample provision was made for his
punishment by a Court of Justice if
sufficient evidence was forthcoming. The
hon. Member went on to say that the
powers of the Board of Trade were
limited in certain cases, and that the
regulations which applied to emigrant
ships should apply also to ships plying
between European ports and ships homeward
bound. He (Mr. Chamberlain)
imagined that the reason why these
cases were excluded was, that no considerable
number of emigrants were carried
under conditions that justified the stringent
provisions of the Passengers Act.
The Scandinavian trade was alluded to
by his hon. Friend as an illustration of
the necessity of applying the rules. That
trade had already engaged the attention
of the Board of Trade had gone to Hull
to inquire into it. At Hull it was found
that there was some reason to be dissatified
with the then existing provision.
The offiver thought it might be improved;
but he pointed out it would be extremely
undesirable, in the interest of the emigrants
themselves, that such stringent
provision should be as would
largely increase the fares which were
now charged. Subject to that circumstance,
however, the officer made certain
recommendations, which were forwarded
to the owners of the Lines; and he (Mr.
Chamberlain) had received the most
ample assurances of their intentions to
do, not only what was recommended, but
anything else which, from time to time,
he might point out to secure the comfort
and health to the whole subject. His
experience was, that much could be done
by friendly representations to the owners
of Lines, without compulsory legislation.
There was always the objection to compulsory
legislation, that they must lay
down hard-and-fast lines to go upon in
all cases, a course of proceeding which
would sometimes interfere unwarrantably
with private enterprize. So long
as he could obtain fair and reasonable
attention from the parties concerned by
their voluntary action, he greatly preferred
it to asking the House to attempt
to control the whole of a very complicated
trade by regulations which took
the form of an Act of Parliament. As
to the treatment of emigrants when they
got to Hull, that was, no doubt, in an
unsatisfactory condition; but it was the
fact that cases of detention occurred
very seldom during a season. The only
way to remedy the cases of hardship,
which occurred three or four times last
year, was to erect a depot or large
lodging-house for the reception of emigrants
when it was impossible to send
them on; and the matter had been
under the consideration both of the
steamship owners and of the local
authorities of Hull, but no definite
conclusion had been come to; one
question being whether it was worth
while to make such a provision, because
the occasions when such buildings
would be useful were so infrequent.
With regard to the state of things on
board foreign Lines which traded between
foreign ports and America, which
did not call at all in England, but for
which English subjects were sometimes
booked, these foreign Companies had,
no doubt, agents in this country who
were amenable to English law, and if
his hon. Friend could lay before him
any evidence of fraud, he had no doubt
he would be able to bring them to a
reckoning. But so far as he had been
able hitherto to follow the complaints of
his hon. Friend, he had no such case of
fraud brought to his attention. On the
contrary, the tickets he had seen distinctly
stated that the voyage was only
to Rotterdam, and thence in the steamers
of the Transatlantic Line to New York.
Under those circumstances it would be
quite impossible to accuse the parties of
any improper conduct. It was necessary
to scrutinize complaints, because they
sometimes came from competitors; and
although that did not make them less
worthy of attention, yet it suggested
caution, without which we might embarrass
our relations with foreign Governments.
The law was already sufficient
to meet cases of fraud. The case
of the Nemesis had been alluded to, and
there might be ground against the action
of these foreign Lines; but this
country had not control over them, nor
could any law that they might pass give
them much control. They must trust to
the fact that circumstances such as those
which seemed to have been brought out
by the inquiry at New York were published
far and wide, and that they would
prove prejudicial in regard to the Line
about which such statements were made,
for passengers would always select that
which bore the best reputation. His
hon. Friend, as he understood him, proposed
that the Government should erect
depots, with the necessary arrangements
belonging thereto, at London, Hull,
Leith, and probably other places, where
emigrants could be received. It seemed
to him (Mr. Chamberlain), however,
that if the Government were going to
take such a step, it would be going very
far in the direction of grandmotherly
legislation, and it would be very difficult
to say when the functions of the State
would stop in such matters. He quite
admitted that the Passengers Act required
revision and reform, for it was
passed 30 years ago, and it required revision
in many respects to which his
hon. Friend had not alluded. There
was also not a single branch of the
Board of Trade in regard to which he
did not see that legislation of a practical
and useful character might be proposed
if they had only time for the business;
but until some change was effected for
restoring to the House control over its
Business, it would be absurd to give
any promise to his hon. Friend that he
would bring in a Bill to deal with the
subject that had just been brought
under the notice of the House.
Mr. MOORE said, that, after the
explanation of the right hon. Gentleman,
he was ready to withdraw the Resolution.
["No, no!"]
Question put, and agreed to.
Main Question again proposed, "That
Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair."
