Assisted Emigration - Observations.
DISTRESS (IRELAND) - ASSISTED EMIGRATION. - OBSERVATIONS. The Earl of DUNRAVEN, in rising to call the attention of Her Majesty's Government to the subject of assisting emigration from certain districts in Ireland, said, although the matter had engaged their Lordship's attention incidentally once or twice in discussion on other matters, he thought the state of things in Ireland at the present moment was of such a character as to excuse him for bringing this important subject before them again. He did not think it was necessary to waste any time in attempting to prove that it was a fact that certain districts in Ireland were over-populated at present, and that there were only two alternatives for that state of things - removal of a portion of the surplus population to other parts of Ireland, or its emigration to other countries. As regarded the first, there was no possibility of migration from one part of Ireland to another, as it was not likely that any manufactures would spring up which would find employment for the population. He should, therefore, assume that the only practical way of relieving the over-populated districts was by emigration. If that was the case, it appeared to him, seeing that neither the people themselves nor their landlords could bear the whole expense of such a remedy, that on an exceptional occasion of this kind, when the people were suffering from exceptional distress, it came quite within the province of the Government to take the matter up. To make emigration as easy as possible, it was obvious that facilities should be afforded to whole families to emigrate, because it was hard enough for a man to give up the plot of ground to which for his whole life he had been attached; but it was harder still to leave his wife and family behind, until in another country he could earn money sufficient to send for them. Besides, it was not well, in the interests of the country, to have the bread-winners - the bone and sinew - go out of it, while the old and the women and children were left behind. Therefore, he thought that, in a case of this kind, every facility ought to be afforded to enable not only able-bodied men, but to enable fathers of families to emigrate with their wives and children. He thought, also that emigration should, if possible, be directed to the British Colonies which required to be populated, rather than anywhere out of the Empire. If there were any strength to be obtained by increase of population, it was only right that our Colonies should have it, and not other nations. He further contended that when the emigration was to our Colonies the emigrants were generally successful, and a source of strength both to the Colonies and to the Empire. There was also another advantage - namely, that the people who went to the Colonies became thoroughly well-disposed towards British rule; whereas experience proved that when they went to the United States, they frequently retained great animosity towards this country. All other things being equal, he did not wish to enter into the question of the merits of one particular Colony over another; but he thought it was obvious that the one which was nearest and could be reached cheapest, was the one which should be taken, if any system of State assistance of emigration, was adopted. The nearest of our Colonies was Canada, and Canada afforded a great many advantages. In many parts there was a large quantity of prairie land that required no clearing whatever, besides which the Dominion itself, would advance money to the emigrants, on the security of the land for tools and provisions for the first year. Terms were offered by the Canadian Government which were of a most liberal description. The Canadian Government gave to the head of a family a homestead grant of 160 acres, which they were allowed to choose where they liked; and at the end of three years, a Government Inspector looked over the land, and if the emigrant had made any improvement on it, if he had built himself a house and broken up the land, showing that he was a bona fide settler, the emigrant became absolutely entitled to the 160 acres, and at the same time had a prescriptive right to purchase another adjoining lot of 160 acres at 10s. per acre. Besides that, the Canadian Government had most excellent arrangements. They had a gentleman over here to take charge of emigrants, and they had a gentleman at Quebec to receive them and forward them to the land they were to occupy; so that the emigrant was conducted to the spot, and chose himself the spot where he wished to live. Prairie land was offered to the emigrants, and there was such a demand for labour in Canada at remunerative wages that the emigrants would want no help after a short time. The objections entertained to emigration by the Roman Catholic clergy, on the score of the evil influences under which the emigrants too often fell on being landed in New York, would vanish if the emigrants went to Canada. He thought nothing could be more liberal than the conduct of the Canadian Government, who, in fact, did everything but advance the money to the emigrants to go out with. It might be said that if the Canadian Government offered such advantages, what was the object of troubling this Parliament about it? But he confessed it appeared to him that the British Parliament ought to offer some assistance also. Many of the landlords would now be very glad to assist their tenants to emigrate, if they could, but they had not the means. In some cases the landlords might, no doubt, be unwilling to assist; and, in such cases, assistance should be given by the State. He hoped that Her Majesty's Government might be able to see their way towards doing something, and he should like to see them appropriate a sufficient sum of money to enable some emigration with the Canadian Government. If the Government were not prepared to do that, he hoped they would advance money to the owners of lands and Boards of Guardians to assist in emigration, taking the security of the land in Canada for the re-payment of the loans. If they were not able to do that, it might be advanced through the Irish Boards of Guardians, on the same terms as advances were now made for the drainage of land. He knew that, inasmuch as emigration ought to be conducted in the spring, it would be too late for an extensive emigration that year; and therefore, he did not ask Her Majesty's Government to make any definite reply at present; but he did hope that between this and next year they would give an attentive and favourable consideration to the subject Viscount MONCK said,...Within the last week his noble Friend (the Earl of Dunraven) and himself had an interview with Sir John Macdonald, the Prime Minister of Canada, and their conversation with that gentleman enabled them to see what great advantages would follow from emigration to that Colony. Within the last few years, by the union of the Provinces of North America, the Canadians obtained an almost unlimited tract of fertile land in the North-West of America. There was room on it for almost any number of people. It would be almost impossible to fill it up. The Canadian Government had taken this matter in hand, and the encouragement they gave to emigrants seemed to be dictated by prudence and judgment. They gave to an emigrant 160 acres of good prairie land which required nothing but the plough. They had organised a system of receiving emigrants, conducting them through the country, and guiding them in the choice of allotments. In fact, they took care of the emigrants in every way. If the British Government made advances to Irish emigrants on the security of their allotments, the Canadian Government would undertake to see to the collection of the re-payments and the transmission of the money to this country. He hoped that Her Majesty's Government would consider the matter, and that if by that time they were not prepared with a plan, his noble Friend (the Earl of Dunraven) would bring forward a Motion on the subject, calling for a Select Committee to inquire into it. In 1847 and 1848, what were called natural causes were allowed to operate, and most Irishmen would agree that very few of the then existing population were benefited by those natural causes. A great number of landowners were ruined, many among the farmers and the middle classes were evicted, and a vast number of people died. Natural causes operated unhappily for the people, but to the advantage of Ireland. It was impossible to read the oft-quoted pamphlet of Mr. Tuke, without being struck, on the one hand, with the great misery existing in some of the places he had visited; and, on the other hand, with the comparative improvement in the average condition of the population as compared with 1847 and 1848. That was the result of the operation of natural causes; but, unfortunately 2,000,000 of people had disappeared somehow, and in a way far from creditable to our administration. He trusted his noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies would not give an absolutely negative answer to the proposal, but would keep his mind open on the subject. Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY trusted that the Government would not give a direct negative to the appeal made to them, but would, at least, take the matter into consideration, and that his noble Friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies would have some conversation on the subject of assisting emigration with the Canadian Minister who was now in this country. It had recently been stated that the railway to Manitoba was already completed to a considerable distance west of the settled parts of Canada, and there would be plenty of room along this line for emigrants. He thought that a good deal of false sentiment against emigration was due to Goldsmith's "Deserted Village" and "Traveller"; but at that time emigrants were very much left to take care of themselves, and were unsupported and unassisted by the State. Lord ORANMORE and BROWNE said,...The prospects held out by the Canadian Government were certainly very attractive, and Her Majesty's Government ought to endeavour in some way to assist our people to avail themselves of the offers that were made. It would be quite legitimate that not only Government aid, but also local aid and individual aid, should be given. He believed that it would be far more desirable than giving fixity of tenure to small tenants in small holdings, to send them to a country where there was a vast extent of fertile land that only required to be occupied and cultivated to yield a good living and easy prosperity to an industrious people. Lord MONTEAGLE said, he wished to swell the general chorus of approval with which the noble Earl's (the Earl of Dunraven's) suggestion had been met, by adding his own. He must, however, say that although it was generally assumed that emigration would be a panacea for the difficulties existing in Connaught and other parts of Ireland, yet he could not persuade himself it would be so. Still, he would urge the Government to give the subject their best consideration. If he doubted whether emigration would be an unmixed good, it was because, while the population was congested in certain parts of Ireland, in other parts it was sparse, and there were tracts of mountain moorland that were perfectly reclaimable. The hon. Member for Galway (Mr. Mitchell Henry) had found it possible almost to create land, which was of a certain agricultural value, and believed the process was remunerative. Before systematically reducing the population, it would be well, therefore, if the Government would see whether there was not land that might be available for supporting some part of the population. When noble Lords spoke of the "conversion" of the Irish to emigration, he felt it impossible not to sympathize with the affectionate attachment of the Irish people to the soil of their country, although he admitted that the feeling was carried to excess. As, however, a large portion of the Irish people were emigrating, it would be well if they could direct, at least, a portion of the stream to their own Colonies. With regard to the development of emigration, he might point out that during the first four months of the year the number of emigrants from Ireland was 34,046, and during the same period of last year the number was 11,904, which showed a development of emigration since last year of nearly treble. Two-thirds of the total number of the emigrants last year went to the United States; whereas in Connaught the proportion was four-fifths of the whole number; and in Mayo, where the evils existed in the highest degree, the proportion was 11 out of every 15. Of the total emigration from Ireland since the Returns were first compiled, about 12 per cent had emigrated under the provisions of the Poor Law. In the year 1855, which might be taken as a fair sample of emigration at its height, the proportion was as high as 27 per 1,000; while in March, 1880, the proportion was only 6 per 1,000; so that, whatever the influence of the Act might have been, it was dying out. He could not disguise from himself that there was a certain danger in emigration as regarded migratory labourers, particularly while the system was going on of subdividing the waste lands which were formerly held in common. That system was proceeding in Connaught, both on the estates of good landlords, who wished to relieve the congested population, and on the properties of landlords who only wished to increase their rentals, and if it was to continue he only feared that the same state of things as regarded the congestion of population which they found so threatening would arise again, and there might arise with it that system of small cottiers, which all deplored. He hoped the subject would receive careful attention on the part of the Government. The Earl of KIMBERLEY said, that in the unavoidable absence of his noble Friend the Lord President of the Council (Earl Spencer) he had undertaken to answer the Question for him; but he must remind their Lordships that it was rather an Irish than a Colonial question. As far as the Colonies were concerned, there could not be the slightest doubt that it would be most advantageous to them to get as large a number of emigrants as they could to cultivate their waste lands, although he was sorry to say there were Colonies which, believing that emigration would diminish the wages they now enjoyed, discouraged it. That, however, was certainly not the case with Canada, in which Dominion there were, undoubtedly, immense tracts of land waiting to be cultivated, and the Canadian Government were wisely desirous of getting a large number of emigrants to cultivate the ground as soon as possible. Therefore, as far as he was concerned, looking at the interests of the Colonial Office, he had not one word to say against any proper scheme of emigration. But, as he had said, this was an Irish question, and in that point of view, perhaps, he ought to speak of it with more reserve. His noble Friend who had just sat down (Lord Monteagle) seemed to balance very much the arguments pro and con - sometimes he favoured emigration, and sometimes he wished to keep the population at home. For himself, he must say he doubted extremely whether emigration was entirely the panacea for the ills of Ireland it was sometimes supposed to be. It was perfectly true that the great emigration that took place in 1841 took place under the most melancholy circumstances, and the depletion of the population then was not only owing to emigration, but to the lamentable number of deaths from famine and fever. The figures were so remarkable that he would quote them; at least, he would quote those in regard to Connaught, the Province most concerned. In 1841, the population was 1,418,000; in 1851, it had been reduced to 1,100,000; and in 1871, it had fallen to 846,000. Notwithstanding that immense diminution, they still found that the condition of Connaught was such that they might almost suppose no practical diminution of the population had taken place. That was not encouraging; and when he was told that if they only sent away a certain further proportion of the population at the expense of the British taxpayer all the evils of Connaught would be removed, he confessed he was extremely sceptical. There was another evil under which various parts of Ireland suffered, and which, he believed, was one of the causes of the difficulties under which landlords and tenants alike suffered, and that was the small holdings. In that respect it was well to observe the prodigious change which had been effected. In 1841 there were over 100,000 holdings under five acres; but they had fallen in 1878 to 22,425. These figures, then, showed that the population had been greatly diminished, and that the process of consolidating the holdings was steadily going on. He felt a great deal of doubt as to whether it would be prudent of the Government to interfere with that process, and, perhaps, by an expenditure of œ10,000,000, to transport a great portion of the population to Manitoba and other distant parts of Canada. There were several practical objections. In the first place, would the population go? That was a matter of considerable doubt. He had been told that landlords had frequently offered the tenants on their estates the opportunity to emigrate, but had not found the offer freely accepted. Then, again, let them look at the operation of the existing law. Noble Lords hardly seemed aware of the vast powers given by the Act of 1849 to Boards of Guardians, under which they might borrow money on the security of the rates to the extent of 11s. 8d. in the pound, for the purpose of assisting emigration, and thus send whole families out of the country. It might be assumed that the sentiment of Ireland was opposed to such emigration, because they found that that power had been only very slightly taken advantage of, the number of families thus assisted being only 585 since the passing of the Act. Ireland, more than any country in the world, was governed by sentiment, and he was not disposed to disregard it. Indeed - and he could speak from personal experience - if there was anything calculated to arouse jealously in Ireland, it was what they called the English Government assisting the landlords in clearing their estates; and he should view with considerable mistrust a policy of advancing large sums to landlords for that purpose, for that was what it would come to. If the Boards of Guardians were willing to assist emigrants, that would be a very legitimate operation indeed, for those Boards represented the community on the spot; they were, or ought to be, the best judges of what was required, and he believed did their duty very well. If these Boards of Guardians were disposed to take advantage of those powers of borrowing which they possessed he would receive it with great satisfaction. Speaking his own opinion - he had no authority to do otherwise - he thought that assistance might be given to local bodies of that kind; but funds given to landlords for the purpose of promoting emigration would render both the landlords and the Government open to misconstruction. He believed that a great deal more might be done in Ireland by the exertions of resident proprietors on the spot than was admitted by some, or than would even result from emigration. He was quite willing to assist in the promotion of any emigration of a legitimate character... . Earl FORTESCUE said, he was sadly disappointed at the speech of his noble Friend (the Earl of Kimberley). ...If the Government profiting by the special facilities now opportunely offered by the Canadian Government, took emigration up not merely as a means of enabling landlords to clear their estates, but in conjunction with Boards of Guardians; if they went to work systematically, so that whole families might emigrate and carry the feeling of family with them, much good might be done. If the people were allowed to take some of their pastors with them to such a country as Canada - and, Protestant as he was, he would not object to that - if they could find there the society which they had left behind, and almost everything the same except their poverty, he believed they would be a source of strength and wealth to the Dominion, and that, while finding prosperity for themselves, they would confer hardly a less benefit upon those they had left behind. ...The Earl of REDESDALE (Chairman of Committees) said, the difficulties in the way of what was proposed were almost insuperable; and he wished to point out that, in order to relieve the congestion of the population, there ought to be a provision that if persons were assisted to emigrate, the houses in Ireland in which they resided should be pulled down; otherwise, other families would come to inhabit them, and the recurrence of the evil would be certain and immediate. The Earl of KIMBERLEY said, he had omitted to give some figures in the course of his remarks which had an interesting bearing on the case. The number of emigrants from Irish ports in the first six months of 1879 were 22,787; and for the first six months of the present year they were 64,583, showing an increase of 41,795. That, at least, showed that an increased emigration was going on. Lord DENMAN said, that he had referred their Lordships to Maguire's The Irish in America, and had desired to present a copy of it to the Library of their Lordships' House. The Earl of DUNRAVEN, in reply, said, he had never suggested that emigration should take any other form than an extension of the system of granting loans to the Boards of Guardians. The money which was advanced by them could be secured on the holdings of the emigrants in Canada, according to the scheme laid down in the Bright Clauses of the Land Act.Close