Questions on the Loss of the Steamship Titanic.
LOSS OF THE STEAMSHIP "TITANIC." UNITED STATES INQUIRY. Captain WARING asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he was aware that, at the Senatorial inquiry in the United States into the "Titanic" disaster, one senator asked a witness if watertight compartments were intended for the reception of passengers in a time of danger, and that witnesses had been brought before the inquiry when in a condition of health which precluded their being able to give evidence in a satisfactory manner; and, if so, would he give the assurance that no official notice whatever would be taken of the inquiry now taking place in the United States? Mr. ACLAND: May I suggest to my hon. Friend that it is undesirable by questions and answers in this House to make reference on the basis of imperfect and possibly inaccurate reports, to the proceedings of the committee of the Senate of the United States Congress. The President of the Board of Trade is taking steps to obtain verbatim reports of the proceedings of the committee in question, in case they may be of service in connection with the investigations of the Court of Inquiry about to be held here into the loss of the steamship "Titanic." Mr. RONALD McNEILL asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether some of the passengers and crew of the "Titanic," although British subjects not charged with any criminal offence, had been forcibly detained in America by order of a committee of the Senate of the United States; or of any international convention; and whether His Majesty's Government had adressed or proposed to address to the Government of the United States any protest against such a violation of the rights of British subjects? Sir GILBERT PARKER asked the President of the Board of Trade whether any communications had passed between this Government and the United States Government concerning the forcible detention of British passengers of the "Titanic"; and if he could state the substance of such communications and the result? Mr ACLAND: No complaints have been received by the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (1) whether he had issued any instructions to the British Ambassador in the United States to take any steps to protect the interests of British subjects who were cited to appear before the American Senate's committee which was inquiring into the loss of the "Titanic"? And (2) whether the loss of the "Titanic," which was now the subject of an inquiry by a committee of American politicians, was a matter which was within the jurisdiction of British courts; whether British subjects were being detained in America for the purposes of the American committee; and, if so, whether he had addressed any communication to the American Government on this matter? Mr. ACLAND: The answer to the first part of the latter question is in the affirmative. The second part of the question is answered by the reply to the hon. Member for East Kent, which I have just given. The position appears to be that the Senate Committee is within its rights in holding an inquiry and requiring the attendance of witnesses. In view of the fact that there has been considerable loss of american as well as British life, it is not unreasonable that American authorities should hold an inquiry with a view to considering for themselves what conditions are desirable to ensure safety for traffic across the Atlantic, and it would be undesirable that British subjects who wish to return home should be put to undue inconvenience by being detained for an unreasonable time. The latest information received indicates that the proceedings of the Committee are not likely to be very prolonged as far as the attendance of British witnesses is concerned , and no official communication has yet been made to the United States Government on the subject. Sir GILBERT PARKER: Is the information to which the hon. Member refers official or only that which appears in the public Press? Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT: Has the Foreign Office addressed any communication to the American Government? Mr. ACLAND: I said that we had not. FALSE REPORTS. Colonel YATE asked the Postmaster-General whether he is now in a position to state the origin of the false reports circulated regarding the safety of the "Titanic"? Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: I have received promises of full assistance in my inquiries from the shipping companies concerned and from the Marconi Company, but the records of some of the ships which were Westward bound have not yet arrived, and therefore it has not been possible to complete the inquiry. So far the origin of the false reports has not been traced to any ship. AUTOMATIC RECEIVERS. Mr. PETO asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that there is an effective invention of Commander Hobland, of the Norwegian navy, for automatic receivers for Marconi apparatus-recording messages in typewriting; and whether he has secured the right to use the invention for the British Navy and shore stations? Dr. MACNAMARA: The answer is in the negative. Many so-called automatic recorders have been invented at one time and another and claim efficiency; but I understand they all have, and must have under existing conditions, the inherent defect of not being able to distinguish between simultaneous signals on or near the same wave length. All his Majesty's ships of any size carry sufficient operators for continuous watch, who receive and discriminate between simultaneous signals in a way at present impossible for any automatic apparatus. Major ARCHER-SHEE: May I ask whether the Admiralty are not experimenting with the Polson system, which was worked automatically before Post Office experts in October, and at twice the rate of the Marconi system? Dr. MACNAMARA: Perhaps the hon. Member will giveme notice. Mr. PETO: Will the hon. Gentleman watch the report of the lecture shortly to be given at the Royal Institution on this system? Dr. MACNAMARA: Certainly. Mr. PETO asked whether he is aware that there is an effective invention of Commander Hobland, of the Norwegian navy, for automatic receivers for wireless apparatus-recording messages in type-writing; whether he has any official information showing that the world rights have been secured by the German Government; and what steps he has taken or intends to take to secure the rights to use the invention in installations on shore in this country and the Dominions and on the British mercantile marine? Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: My advisers are acquainted with a number of automatic receivers, but I have no specific information about the particular invention referred to by the hon. Member. I am having inquiry made on the subject. TELEGRAMS FOR CANADA AND UNITED STATES. Sir EDWIN CORNWALL asked the Postmaster-General whether he is prepared to arrange for the public use of the Marconi wireless system between this country and America? Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: On application from t heMarconi Company I have made arrangements to accept from the public, on and from 1st May, at all telegraph offices in the United Kingdom, telegrams addressed to places in Canada and the United States for transmission by the company's wireless Transatlantic service. The company have notified that the full rate for telegrams sent by their route to New York or to Montreal will be eightpence a word, the rate for cablegrams being one shilling a word, and that there will be a similar reduction in the full rates for telegrams for other parts of America. For deferred telegrams in plain language the rate to New York will be fourpence a word, the cablegram rate being sixpence, with corresponding reductions for other places. Mr. HARRY LAWSON: Will the Marconi Company give any time guarantee? Mr. SAMUEL: Does the hon. Member mean deferred telegrams? Mr. H. LAWSON: No; in regard to service- as to the speed and transmission. Mr. SAMUEL: Not, so far as I am aware of. ATLANTIC ROUTES. Mr. ROWLANDS asked whether the captains of the Atlantic liners have a definite route laid down for them to follow going west or east; whether any, and, if so, what discretion is allowed to the captain for him to judge of the necessity for deviating from the course laid down on account of ice, fog, or any obstruction; and whether any captains have been censured or discharged for deviating from their course? Mr. BUXTON: I understand that the routes taken by passenger vessels across the Atlantic have been laid down to a certain extent by the Steamship companies. I have no doubt that the matter is one which will be considered by the Court of Inquiry into the loss of the steamship "Titanic." STEWARDS ON PASSENGER VESSELS. Mr. CATHCART WASON asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will inquire from independent sources whether stewards on passenger and tourist ships are habitually overworked, unprovided with sleeping accommodation, or hours for meals; and whether, if he finds there is evidence to that effect, he will direct the attention of the Court of Inquiry to the danger to the public resulting from such a state of affairs? Mr. BUXTON: If my hon. Friend can furnish me with definite information showing that there are grounds for complaints with reference to the matters mentioned in his question, I will investigate such complaints. Should any information placed before me appear relevant to the investigation of the Court of Inquiry into the loss of the "Titanic," I should not fail to bring it to the attention of the Court. WRECK COMMISSIONER'S INQUIRY. Mr. FRED HALL (Dulwich) asked the President of the Board of Trade whether the Court of Inquiry to be presided over by Lord Mersey will have powers conferred upon it to make regulations compelling shipowners to carry sufficient boats, rafts, and collapsible boats to accommodate the whole of the passengers and crew; and if not, whether the Board of Trade will immediately take steps to convene an independent inquiry thereon? Mr. BUXTON: The making of the regulations as to life-saving appliances on ships rests, under Section 427 of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, with the Board of Trade, subject that are made by the Court of Inquiry into the loss of the "Titanic" will, of course, receive the fullest possible consideration by the Board of Trade. As I have already informed the House, the whole matter is under very careful inquiry. Mr. F. HALL: Will it not be necessary for the Wreck Commissioners to base their findings entirely on the Board of Trade regulations laid down at the present time? Mr. BUXTON: They have the fullest possible powers of making any report on the matter, to which, I need hardly say, we shall give the utmost possible consideration. Mr. F. HALL: In making that report, will the Court of Inquiry have the power to make the necessary regulations, because unless regulations are made they will not be binding upon the shipowners? Mr. BUXTON: As I have pointed out to the hon. Member, the statutory obligation of making regulations falls on the Board of Trade; obviously it is not a thing for the Court of Inquiry. But any recommendations they make will be considered most carefully. Mr. F. HALL: May I take it that the Wreck Commissioners will only be able to recommend regulations to the Board of Trade? Mr. BUXTON: I have said so three times. Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. Member is only asking the same question. Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT asked whether the right hon. Gentleman can indicate on what date the investigation into the loss of the "Titanic," by Lord Mersey's Court of Inquiry, will open? Mr. BUXTON: The investigation will open on Thursday next. Mr. KING asked what number of assessors will assist the Wreck Commissioner in the "Titanic" Inquiry; who they are; and what are their respective capacities or qualifications? Mr. McKENNA: The President of the Board of Trade has asked me to reply to this question. Five Assessors have been appointed, as already announced in the Press. They are as follows: Rear-Admiral Calthorpe, formerly Captain of the fleet and Commodore First Class on the staff of the Commander-in-Chief of the Home Fleet; Professor Biles, Professor of Naval Architecture at Glasgow; Captain A. W. Clarke, Elder Brother of the Trinity House; Commander Lyon, formerly a captain in the Peninsular and Oriental Steamship Company; and Mr. Chaston, who is a marine engineer of Newcastle. Mr. CROOKS: May I ask the right hon. Gentleman how it is, after the approval of the House, there is no assessor representing the travelling public? Mr. McKENNA: The assessors act in a judicial capacity, or, rather, they advise the judge, and their office is one requiring expert knowledge; they do not sit in any sense in a representative capacity. Mr. CROOKS: Surely a man who has practical knowledge from the labour point of view would be a helpful assessor, and the man who has taken part as a passenger would also be very helpful as an assessor. Why are these two excluded? Mr. McKENNA: My hon. Friend, if he will forgiv me for saying so, is rather mixing up the proper subject for evidence with the proper subjects to be advised upon by expert advisers, who are called assessors. No doubt passengers and persons representative from the labour point of view will be called as witnesses. Mr. CROOKS: Why not have them as assessors? Mr. WEDGEWOOD: Can the right hon. Gentleman give the House the exact question which is remitted to this judicial tribunal for decision? Mr. SPEAKER: That question does not arise out of the answer. Mr. KING: Is it in the power of the Home Secretary to add further assessors, and can he do so even while the inquiry is proceeding? Mr. McKENNA: Yes, Sir, I could, certainly; but I could only add assessors of the same kind as those prescibed by Statutory Rules, and they do not provide for appointing assessors of a representative character. Mr. WEDGEWOOD: Could you have an assessor connected with the Seamen's and Firemen's Union? Mr. McKENNA: No, Sir. Mr. MARTIN: Might I ask the right hon. Gentleman if he would appoint a special counsel to represent the passengers and labour people in connection with this inquiry? Mr. McKENNA: I understand from my right hon. Friend that full opportunity will be given to counsel to appear. Mr. MARTIN: Will the Government pay them? Mr. C. BATHURST: Arising out of the original answer, does not the right hon. Gentleman think the association of Professor Biles with work of construction on behalf of Messrs. Harland and Woolff places him in a somewhat difficult position as a member of this Inquiry? Mr. McKENNA: I am not aware that Professor Biles has been associated with Messrs. Harland and Woolff, but, if that is so, I should think it would be difficult to find any well-known expert who had not in some way or other been associated with that firm. Mr. BUXTON: In answer to my hon. Friend, I did give him an answer the other day, but I would be glad if he would give me notice. Mr. JOHN WARD rose- Mr. SPEAKER: I think hon. Members had better put down any further questions. MANNING BOATS. Mr. FRED HALL (Dulwich) asked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in the event of Regulations being made to increase the boats and other life-saving apparatus, he will consider the necessity for increasing the number of deck hands in order that there may be sufficient competent seamen for manning such boats? Mr. BUXTON: The question of the number of competent hands available for launching and manning the boats on passenger steamers in an emergency has obviously an important bearing on the question of increasing the number of boats, and it will certainly be very carefully considered by me in connection therewith. INCREASED LIFE-BOAT ACCOMODATION. Sir GILBERT PARKER asked the names of the steamship companies which have agreed to increase the lifeboat accomodation to the full number of passengers carried; and if communications to this effect have been made by the steamship companies to the Board of Trade? Mr. BUXTON: I stated last Tuesday, in reply to a question by the hon. Member for Blackburn, the names of the passenger steamship companies which had then informed the Board of Trade of their intentions to provide their vessels with boats and rafts sufficient to accommodate all persons on board, as soon as the necessary boats are obtainable. Since then one or two other companies have informed to the same effect, and I am in communication with others. The names of the companies who have so informed me are are as follows: The Allan, American, Anchor Line, Atlantic Transport, British India, Bucknalls, Canadian Pacific, Cunard, Dominion, Federal Steam Navigation company, Lamport and Holt, Leyland , New Zealand Shipping Company, P. and O., pacific Steam Navigation company, Orient, Red Star, Royal Mail, Royal Line, Shaw Savill and albion, Thompson's Aberdeen Line, Union Castle, and White Star. Some of these lines already provide accommodation for all on board. The companies above-named include 95 per cent. of the number of passenger vessels of 10,000 tons gross and upwards. Mr. DOUGLASS HALL (Isle of Wight): Has the right hon. Gentleman received any communication from the Bibby Line? Mr. BUXTON: I think not: it is not in the list I read out. Perhaps I should explain: the conference to which reference was made was only held at very short notice. Some of the lines did not receive intimation of it; some others communicated with me independently. I do not think the Bibby Line is on the list, and therefore I do not think they communicated with me. UNITED STATES AUTHORITIES AND BOARD OF TRADE REGULATIONS. Sir GILBERT PARKER asked whether the Board of Trade Regulations governing lifeboat accommodation and life-saving appliances and Board of Trade inspection have been been accepted hitherto by the United States authorities as sufficient for their own harbour waters? Mr. BUXTON: British passenger steamers complying with the Board of Trade Regulations as to lifesaving appliances and other matters, and holding passenger certificates attesting this compliance, are not subject to inspection in United States waters except as may be necessary to satisfy the local inspectors that the condition of the vessel, her boilers and life-saving equipments is as stated in the certificate. CHILDREN IN STEERAGE. Mr. WEDGWOOD asked whether the proposed British inquiry into the "Titanic" disaster will be able to inquire into the reason why the majority of the children in the steerage were drowned, while they were able to save those in the first and second class, and why the half-filled boats did no return to pick up the drowning as soon as the vessel sank? MARQUESS of TULLIBARDINE: Before this question is answered may I ask whether it is in order to put it as the matter is sub judice? Mr. BUXTON: I did not take it there is anything underlying this question. The answer is certainly. EXCURSION STEAMERS. Mr. BOTTOMLEY asked whether at this time of the year the owners of excursion steamers apply for their passenger certificates; and whether, before granting the same, he will require an undertaking for lifeboat accommodation sufficient to carry the authorised number of passengers and crew? Mr. BUXTON: The board of Trade cannot require as the condition of granting a passenger certificate that a steamer should comply with conditions in excess of those laid down in the Merchant Shipping Acts or in the statutory rules or regulations thereunder, and in such a case the owner of the vessel could appeal to a Court of Survey. The revision of the rules applicable to the class of vessels referred to in the question are under careful consideration. MERCHANT VESSEL'S EQUIPMENT. Major WHITE asked whether the life-saving appliances and navigational equipment of merchant vessels are frequently left to the inspection of Board of Trade Surveyors of Ships, who are either nautical, engineer, or ship surveyors. The two former classes of surveyors have had practical experience at sea, and all Board of Trade Surveyors receive a course of training in their duties before they are entrusted with the inspection of the life-saving appliances, lights, fog-signals, etc., of vessels. Mr. KELLAWAY: May I ask my right hon. Friend whether an Inspector from the Board of Trade inspected the collapsible boats on the "Olympic"? Mr. BUXTON: The boats mentioned were in excess; they were inspected, I understand, by a superintendant at Southampton. Mr. PETO: Are there not also engineer surveyors, and do I understand the engineer surveyors did not have anything to do with the inspection of the navigational equipment of the ship? Mr. BUXTON: I think there is a question about that later. If not, then perhaps the hon. Member will give me notice. NAVIGATING OFFICERS. Major WHITE asked how many navigating officers, exclusive of the captain, were carried in the "Titanic"; what system of officers' watches were carried out on board of her; and whether the Board of Trade compel ships to carry navigating officers in some proportion to their tonnage and passenger carrying capacity? Mr. BUXTON: Seven navigating officers, exclusive of the master, were carried on the "Titanic." I am not able to state what system of watches was adopted. But this question is one within the scope of the Board of Inquiry. The Merchant Shipping Acts require that every foreign going ship and every home trade passenger ship other than a very small vessel shall carry a certificated master and a certificated mate. If a foreign going ship carries more than one mate, at least the first and second mates must be certificated. Mr. PETO: Is there any Board of Trade Regulation that goes beyond Section 92 of the merchant Shipping Act? Mr. BUXTON: I do not like to answer these rather technical questions off hand. MERCHANT SHIPPING ADVISORY COMMITTEE. Major WHITE asked (1) whether, on the appointment of the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee in 1906, the then President of the Board of Trade enjoined strict privacy in connection with the proceedings of this Committee; whether, having published the Report as to boat capacity on board ship of the Sub-committee of the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee, he will now publish the whole of the correspondence which passed between the Board of Trade and the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee and which led up to the appointment of this Sub-committee; and whether he will also publish a full Report of the proceedings of the Sub-committee previous to their drafting their Report? Mr. PETO asked (2) as the question of life-saving equipment on board merchant ships has once again been remitted by him to the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee, whether he will abandon the privacy of the proceedings of this Committee and throw them open to the Press and the public? Mr. BUXTON: The proceedings of the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee have always been private, like those of other Advisory Committees appointed by the Board of Trade. Reports summarising the work of the Committee are published from time to time, but I consider that it would be contrary to the public interest, and detrimental to the future usefulness of the Committees, if its proceedings and those of its Sub-committees, and correspondence which take place between the Committee and the Board of Trade are published. I take this oppurtunity, by the indulgence of the House, to correct a misapprehension which appears to have arisen out of a recent statement of mine to the House. In stating that the Board of Trade were not satisfied certain provisions recommended by the Committee were altogether adequate, I had no intentions of depreciating in any way the value of the Committee's Report. My sole intention was to explain that what otherwise might have appeared to be an unwarranted delay on the part of the Board of Trade in giving effect to the Committee's recommendations, sprang from the desire to make further experiments and tests, especially with regard to the best form and type of boats designed, to ascertain whether it would not be practicable to go a step further. I fully recognise that when all this took place both the Committee and the Board of Trade advisers were basing their views as to life-saving equipment on principles which, though generally accepted up to the present by the best expert autorities, have now been called in question by the recent disaster. As the House is aware, the whole question is now being reviewed in the light of the new situation. I have every confidence in the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee as adequately fulfilling the object which Parliament intended it to serve- namely, to give the Board of Trade the great advantage of the knowledge and counsel of persons and bodies specially conservant with maritime questions, without, of course, in any way diminishing the responsibility of the Board of Trade themselves to safeguard the public interest. As I attach great value to the services of the Committee I should greatly regret if any words of mine had inadvertently suggested any lack of appreciation of its work. Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKE: Will the Inquiry into the "Titanic" disaster be a public Inquiry? Mr. BUXTON: Certainly, the Inquiry will be public. Mr. PETO: Does the right hon. Gentleman think it fair to the Advisory Committee to publish only such portions of their Report as the Board of Trade think fit? Mr. BUXTON: The particular Report published was one very germane to the present circumstances, and it was published with the assent of the chairman. I thought the house would desire it to be published as it was under the exceptional circumstances. Mr. DOUGLAS HALL (Isle of Wight): Is it not a fact that the Merchant Shipping Advisory Committee is entirely composed of persons whose business it is to make money out of the conveyance of passengers and cargo? Mr. BUXTON: I think that is a very unwarrantable aspersion on the members of the Advisory Committee. If the hon. Member will refer to the names of the Advisory Committee, which were circulated with the Votes a few days ago, he will see there is no foundation whatever for the statement or imputation he makes. INCREASED TONNAGE OF BRITISH LINERS. Mr. CROFT asked the right hon. Gentleman what was the tonnage and passenger accommodation of the biggest British ocean-going liner in 1905; what is the corresponding tonnage and accommodation of the biggest ship to-day; and whether the Board of Trade has from time to time increased the regulation number of boats comparatively with the increase in the number of passengers carried? Mr. BUXTON: The tonnage of the largest British ocean-going liner in 1905 was 23,875 tons gross, and the number of passengers allowed to be carried under the vessel's passenger certificate was 2,041. The corresponding figures at the present time are 45,325 tons and 2,524 passengers. The hon. Member will see that, although the tonnage has nearly doubled, the increase in the number of passengers is only 24 per cent. The minimum requirements as to boat accommodation in the largest passenger steamers were not altered during the period referred to in the question. NAUTICAL SURVEYORS. Major ARCER-SHEE asked if the right hon. gentleman will state what qualifications are demanded on appointment of nautical engineer and shipwright surveyors to the Board of Trade; how many nautical surveyors are employed in the Marine Department of the Board of Trade; how many inspections of the life saving and navigational equipments of merchant ships were made during the year 1911; and what proportion that bears to the total number of ships of over 200 tons nett register flying the British flag? Mr. BUXTON: The qualifications demanded on appointment of nautical surveyors to the Board of Trade are that they must possess a foreign-going master's or extra master's certificate of competency, and must have been in command of foreign-going steamships. An engineer survryor must have served an apprentice-ship to a firm of engineers or iron or steel shipbuilders, must have served at sea as an engineer on regular watch in charge of engines for at least five years, and must possess a first-class or extra first-class certificate of competancy as a sea going engineer. A ship surveyor must have been trained as a shipwright for not less than five years, and subsequently had practical experience in the building and repairing of ships. All candidates appointed must pass a satisfactory competitive technical examination, and are certificated by the Civil Service Commissioners. Surveyors, after appointment undergo a course of training in all their duties, and have to pass a further technical examination before they survey and inspect vessels on their own responsibility. There are six-teen nautical surveyors and four principal district nautical officers employed in connection with survey duties in the Marine Department of the Board of Trade. This does not include engineer or ship surveyors, who number eighty-five and thirty-four respectively. I regret that I cannot at the moment give the statistics desired by the hon. Member, but I will inquire whether it is possible to obtain them, and, if so, they shall be communicated to him. Major ARCHER-SHEE: Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that even sixteen nautical surveyors are enough to inspect 7,000 steamers with an aggregate tonnage of 17,000,000? Mr. BUXTON: That question will also be considered. Mr. PETO asked whether those merchant captains and officers who are candidates for nautical appointments under the Board of Trade are requested to state whether they have ever been censured or their certificates temporarily suspended at Board of Trade inquiries into shipping casualties? Mr. BUXTON: Candidates for the post of nautical surveyor are asked when they are interviewed whether their certificates have ever been dealt with. They are also required in their form of application for appointment to state in writing what casualties they have met and whether their certificates have been dealt with. Mr. PETO: In the case of any candidate for appointment as nautical surveyor, if there has been anything against his certificate, is that always a bar to his appointment? Mr. BUXTON: Not at all. It depends enitrely upon the nature of it. LORD CHANCELLOR'S RULES. Mr. MARTIN asked the President of the Board of Trade whether Rules have been made by the Lord Chancellor, under Section 479 of the Merchant Shipping Act, as to investigations with regard to shipping casualties, and, if so, when; and will he issue a White Paper containing these rules? Mr. BUXTON: General Rules for Formal Investigation into Shipping casualties, and appeals and Rehearings were made by the Lord Chancellor on 22nd November, 1907. The Rules are published by the Stationary Office, and I am sending a copy to my hon. Friend. PASSENGER ACCOMMODATION. Sir GILBERT PARKER asked if the right hon. Gentleman will state what proportion of the total accommodation for first and second class passengers, respectively, on the cross-Channel steamers is either below deck or under shelter? Mr. BUXTON: I am afraid that I have not the information asked for in the hon. Member's question. Mr. KING: Does this question refer to the Irish Channel or the English Channel? [An Hon. Member: "Both."] Sir GILBERT PARKER: Is there no information in the Department which would enable the right hon. Gentleman to answer this question? Mr. BUXTON: I do not quite understand what information the hon. Member requires. Sir GILBERT PARKER asked whether the right hon. Gentleman will give the basis of measurement for passenger accommodation in the Cross-channel steamers; and what is the measurement of space alloted to each passenger? Mr. BUXYON: The basis for determining the number of passengers allowed on cross-channel steamers is, in the case of passengers accommodated in spaces fitted for sleeping, the number of berths or sofa-berths provided subject to each person having at least 72 cubic feet of space. In the case of passengers accomodated in other spaces, or on deck, the basis for determining the number is the amount of clear superficial area available, and in this case the measurement is at the rate of one passenger for each nine square feet of such area. THIRD-CLASS PASSENGERS SAVED. Mr. KELLAWAY asked if the right hon. Gentleman has received from the owners of the "Titanic" any explanation of the small percentage of women and children saved amongst the third-class passengers? Mr. BUXTON: This is a question for the Court of Inquiry. PASSENGER LOSSES (ATLANTIC). Mr. FELL asked how many passengers crossed the Atlantic between the United Kingdom and the United States and Canada in the ten years ending 31st December, 1911, and the number of lives that were lost among such passengers except from natural causes; and what percentage such loss bears to the number of passengers? Mr. BUXTON: The total number of passengers of all classes and all nationalities carried outward and inward on board British and foreign ships between the United Kingdom and the United States and Canada (including Newfoundland) during the ten years ending 31st December, 1911, was 6,053,382, of which the great proportion were carried in United Kingdom ships. The number of passengers reported to the Board of Trade as having lost their lives by casualties to vessels belonging to the United Kingdom (I can-not give those on other ships) on voyage between the United Kingdom and the United States and Canada during the period named was nine. STEAMSHIP "OLYMPIC." Mr. W. THORNE: May I ask the Post-master-General a question, of which I have given private notice- whether the owners of the White Star Line have asked the Postmaster-General to assist the prosecutions of sailors who refused to sail on the steamship "Olympic" owing to a dispute as to the inadequancy of the boats and other life-saving appliances, and the consequent engagement of unqualified men as fire-men; and if such application was made, what answer has been given? Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: I have received a telegram requesting official support to the pending prosecutions. No reply has been sent. As at present advised, I do not see that I have any locus standi in the matter. Mr. LANSBURY: May I ask the President of the Board of Trade a question, of which i have given private notice, whether the owners of the White Star Line have asked the Board of Trade to assist the prosecution of sailors who refused to sail on the steamship "Olympic" owing to a dispute as to the adequacy of the boats and life-saving appliances, and the consequent engagement of unqualified men as fire-men, and if such application has been made, what answer has been given by the Board of Trade, and, further, if seamen and firemen are by law compelled to serve upon ships which are insufficiently and inadequately supplied with boats or with men who are considered to be incompetant? Mr. BUXTON: I have only just now received the hon. Member's question. Mr. LANSBURY: I posted it on Saturday. Mr. BUXTON: There has been some mistake. Perhaps the hon. Member will kindly give notice for to-morrow. I would rather not answer without consideration. DETENTION OF "TITANIC" CREW AT PLYMOUTH. Earl WINTERTON asked the President of the Board of Trade who was responsible for sending the instructions from the Board of Trade to detain against their will and without a warrant the members of the crew of the "Titanic," who arrived at Plymouth on Saturday, and what offence, if any, is alleged against these men? Mr. BUXTON: There is, of course, no question of any allegation of any offence against the survivors of the crew of the "Titanic," who arrived at Plymouth by the "Lapland" yesterday. Under the provisions of Section 465 of the Mercahnt Shipping Act, 1894, the Receiver of wreck has power to hold a pleminary inquiry respecting the casualty, and to examine them for the purposes of the court and administer oaths. This course was taken to prevent any delay in getting the evidence of these witnesses for the Court of Inquiry, and with the same object, premises were found near to the place of landing for taking the depositions there, and who desired to proceed elsewhere, and to get the names and addresses of those leaving so that arrangements could be made for taking their depositions later. Mr. W. THORNE: Will the men in question be compensated for being kept back? Mr. BUXTON: As I said in the debate on the motion for the Adjournement last week, it is within the power of the Board of Trade to give sustentation allowance in such cases where the persons themselves require it, and certainly it will be done in this case.Close