220 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE Mr.
John Stanley, Mr.
31ickael Kenny, Cappoquin.
scarcely get them to come at all.
At that time we found very great difficulty after they had been there a second time ; in fact after they had been there a first time.
25857.
Why was that ?—The
experience of eaptains Avhen they went with cargoes to Cappoquin was that owing 23 Apr.
1907.
to the shallowness of the river they were not able to get
away again quickly enough; unless they met a spring tide they were generally at Cappoquin, and often lost ten or twelve days there.
25858.
Even on a high tide did they sometimes get neaped ?—If
they got a high tide coming up they got up a 1 right, but except they got very quick despatch they were not able to get back again until the next high tide.
25859.
And they had to lie at Cappoquin until the next high tide ?—They
had to lie at Cappoquin practically idle very often for a week and sometimes more.
25860.
That naturally was a great discouragement to the traffic ?—A
great discouragement—practically stopped it.
25861.
When you got the coal and timber trade into your OAvn hands what did you do ?—I
worked a vessel up and down the river very frequently myself and had personal experience of the difficulty there Avas then.
25862.
Should the journey under ordinary circum¬ stances be accomplished in a single tide ?—Under
very exceptional circumstances ; it very seldom happened that we got up there on a single tide—very veiy seldom.
25863.
How long did it usually take—five times as long ?—Three
or four times certainly, and sometimes a week ; unless we met a spring tide when we landed at Youghal it was almost impossible to get up to Cappoquin until the next spring.
25864.
And even then very difficult to get away on the same tide ?—And
even then very difficult to get away.
25865.
Have you had to send barges alongside to lighten vessels ?—Frequently.
25866.
Just explain that to the Commission ?—The
vessel would not have Avater enough after discharging her cargo at Cappoquin to get doAvn into deep Avater, and she went down with a half-load or a very small portion of her cargo, the balance of which Ave had to send down in barges after her to fill up in deep water.
25867.
(3Ir.
Davison.)
Where is the deep water ?—
We should get doAA-n quite as far as Yillierstown or Cam-phire to get into really deep water.
That is practically four miles below Cappoquin.
25868.
(Lord Kenyon.)
How far above Youghal ?—
About thirteen miles above Youghal."
25869.
(Chairman.)
It is marked on our map.
When you lightened the ship to enable her to clear the shoals and get to her berth had you also to do the same with export timber, only partly loading your ship ?—Very
frequently.
25870.
And then you had to send barges after the ship to finish loading in this deep water ?—Quite
so.
25871.
You were no longer surprised after your own experience at the captains refusing to come to Cappoquin ?
—No.
25872.
What are you at present importing ?—Artificial
manures; I wanted to import a cargo of it this year by vessel to Cappoquin and I could not get a captain to come.
I had to get it into Dungarvan, that is eleven miles from Cappoquin.
85873.
How did you get your goods up from there ?—
We had then to cart the manure from the vessel to the railway at Dungarvan and from Dungarvan to Cappoquin again, eleven miles by rail, which of course meant a great •deal of extra expense.
25874.
After getting it to the station did you then cart it to the store ?—Prom
the station to the store again, whereas if we could get vessels up to Cappoquin we Avould have only the one handling of the goods.
25875.
Are you able to say anything about the Lismore merchants ?
Do they suffer in the same way ?—They
are in .
xactly the same position on that point as we are in Cappoquin.
25876.
(To 31r.
Kenny.)
You have not sent in any proof: Avhat is your occupation ?—I
am a merchant-captain in Cappoquin.
25877.
Do you confirm Mr.
Stanley's evidence ?—I
simply corroborate Mr.
Stanley.
25878.
You corroborate him in all his points ?—Yes.
(31r.
Stanley.)
Would your Lordships permit me to bring under your notice a matter that I discovered in going into this matter of the Blackwater.
I have before me the Journal of the old Irish House of Commons from 1761 to 1764, and I find in that Journal on page 34 in the year 1761, a Resolution by the House I think it was, which reads as follows: " The Corporation for carrying on an Inland Navigation in Ireland, towards making the River Black-water navigable in the county of Waterford, to be ac¬ counted for to Parliament "
a sum of " £2,500 " granted for the purposes for which we are speaking to-day.
And I see further on with regard to the same matter: " Ordered, that Mr.
John Welstead do return to the Clerk of this House, upon oath, an account of the money granted by Parliament the last session, toAvards making the River BlackAvater navigable from Dromagh, in the county of Cork" (I think that is a mistake), " to Cappoquin, in the county of Waterford, and Iioav the same has been applied " From Dromagh, I think it means Dromanagh.
" Ordered, that Thomas Fruin do return to the Clerk of this House an account, upon oath, of the progress made in the navigation of the River BlackAvater, from Dromagh, in the county of Cork " (that is a geographical mistake I think), " to Cappoquin, in the county of Waterford, since last session of Parliament; how much of the said work remains to be done, and Avhat further sum will be necessary to complete the same."
25879.
Where is the place that is wrongly named in the paragraph ?—Dromagh
is the residence of Mr.
Villiers Stewart, 2-1-miles south of Cappoquin.
It is on the left-hand bank of the river going" do\vn, the right bank coming up.
25880.
Near VillierstoAvn ?—Yes
just adjoining Villiers-toAAm.
There is a further paragraph relating to that matter :
" Resolved, that it is the opinion of this Com¬ mittee that a sum of £2,500 be given to the Corporation for promoting and carrying on an Inland Navigation in Ire¬ land, for making the River Blackwater navigable from Dromagh, in the county of Cork, to Cappoquin, in the county of Waterford, to be by them accounted for to Parliament."
I bring these under your notice to show there Avas a precedent.
25881.
You mention that with a vieAv of shoAving thai there are precedents for grants ?—Yes,
I mention that as a precedent.
25882.
Has there not been some little conflict of opinion in your locality as to whether the improvements should be carried out at Cappoquin or should bo carried up to Fernioy ?—I
think it is a matter of utter impossibility to carry it to Fermoy.
25883.
I think we Avere told there is great difficulty about the fisheries above Cappoquin ?—Yes,
the fisheries above Cappoquin put a complete stop to the project; it is a matter which is altogether out of the question going beyond Cappoquin.
25884.
And you are not here to ask for the improve¬ ment of the river above Cappoquin ?—Not
beyond Cappo¬ quin.
25885.
(To 3Ir.
Kenny.)
Do you concur in that view ?—
Yes.
(3Ir.
Stanley.)
I might say that the Duke of Devon¬ shire claims the rights to the bed and soil of the Black-water, but he does not object at all to the deepening of the river.
I have a letter from his agent to that effect.
25886.
What part of the BlackAvater does he own, be¬ tAveen what points ?—He
claims, I think, the whole tidal portion of the River Blackwater.
25887.
How far does the tide come up ?—The
tide goes about a mile and a half above Cappoquin.
25888.
(Mr.
Wcddron.)
Was that settled in the case of the Duke of Devonshire v.
Neill about twenty years ago ?—
It was.
yk 25889.
(Chairman.)
I have here some particulars before me which speak of the tidal river from Youghal to Cappoquin, the length about 18 miles, no locks and no tolls; is that correct ?—That
is true.
