296 ARTERIAL DRAINAGE COMMISSION, IRELAND, 1905.
**.
10,1906.
]ake^ete Mr.
T.
G.
Palmer Hallett, M.A.
J.*.,
MA.
aajk Bn vnn not think that the fluctuations of the have a Government office to which Ave can apply 6083.
Do.^£V^i^
Emits'-That was the at any time, and Government inspectors who can go ke were to be wnhin certain limits
down to see whether things are right or wrong.
Sup-6084 You cannot very well get nearer with a large drainage area than this.
In fact I am surprised it.is
so small as two feet?-The
determination of that-when to raise the gates and when to lower the gates-is a fearful question here.
There is so very much left to the private opinion of those who have to regulate the thing.
So I say it ought to be a fixed quantity wMclTSyone can know, and that we should have some other opinion than that of the Conservancy Board, or the Countv Council, or any other board.
6085 You have said as regards nsnenes that the water has been let so low that the fish could not get up ?—Yes.
.
, .
, , 6086.
Have vou ever knoAvn a case m which.the
water was so low that the mills could not work ?—I
don't think I have; not in this case, because the Avater runs down the side when there is no water running over the sill, and the nulls are still supplied at the 6087.
Coming baek to my other question: if you have no Conservancy Board what do you suggest should be the future proceedings in regard to drain¬ age ?_i
should be very sorry to say have no Conserv¬ ancy Board.
I really'have not thought out the thing, but as the matter occurs to me now I would say that the Supreme Government should have some responsi¬ bility in the working of this matter through some de¬ partment.
At the present moment it is the Board of Works I don't wane to see the Government entirely disestablished and have the thing put into the hands of a local body, however valuable the local body might be.
6088.
Suggest to me some mode in which the drain¬ age can be parried out.
A district is subject to con¬ stant flooding: in some parts of Ireland as much as three or four feet for months in the winter.
It is necessary to clear those floods away and construct works, very expensive works often.
At present the whole machinery is thrown out of gear.
What can you suggest in the future in the interests of drainage should be xht* mode mf procedure?—It
is a very difficult ques¬ tion to answer.
It is like drawing up a constitution, but I am only thinking out these matters.
The Go¬ vernment should be irvolvt-1 in the matter.
6089.
You may he perfectly certain that whatever body is constituted, whether Conservancy Board or County Council are doing the work, they -will have to go to the Government for a loan, and the Government wiH look after its own interests?—Is
it the only function of the Government to lend: it is not the notion one has of Government.
What I feel is this: a Government has a power that no local body has; it has* the command of the intellect of the kingdom, and sometimes it exercises that command through its insp^tors and in other forms, but the local Council has not that power.
P cannot do it.
It is very much at _
the mercy of various influences and so forth.
On this very Commission I have no doubt the Government has eho^n the best gentlemen it could; certainly much beztf-T than we rould choose from local repre¬ sentatives of Gaiwav or any of these Councils.
We have impact ors with regard' to fishery matters, and I think with regard to a Conservancy Board or anything of that kind we should have Government responsibility.
6090.
A drainage board would have to spend money in capital expenditure in the creation and construction of the necessary works.
They will have to recoup themselves for this and "
pose the conservators find, lor example, that a miliar is not acting according to law, we have no power to act with that miller directly, but we can write up to the Government, that is to say, at the present time, the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries, and they wiLl send down an inspector to look after the matter and see how it lies.
That is a combination of central government with local administration.
6092.
Coming to the local administration of drain¬ age districts, what would you suggest ?—I
think there ought to be some central authority similar to what we have in the case of fisheries.
6093.
What central authority would you suggest?—
I don't think I could say anything worth saying on that.
I will tell you what we have done in the case of fisheries.
We have inspectors, and these inspectors come down and look after the questions brought before them by the conservators or the public.
6094.
Possibly, that would be tho case; but how would you initiate, if a district requires drainage; how would you start about initiating it?—I
have no objection to the local authority initiating, drawing plans, and so forth.
6095.
Who is to pay for those plans ?—The
locality that gets the benefit.
6096.
That is one of the things which at present are stopping the initiation of drainage schemes, the expense of preparing the initial plans.
The next thing is the difficulty of obtaining, under the existing law, the consent of half the people
>
affected.
Those are the two things that are most prominent in blocking the way.
Can you give us any suggestion as to what body you would call in to assist in carrying out that work, because drainage in Ireland is a very pressing matter?—I
don't know whether it is so very pressing in this place.
6097.
Possibly not, because, as I said before, it is astonishing to me that you are able to keep the lake within two feet?—My
own idea is that we may often have a great deal too much interference with rivers in the way of drainage.
You'let the water off some parts and you flood others, and you make holes just as Ave have in this place, and sometimes arterial drainage, especially through this kind of soil, does more harm than good; but assuming it is a good and useful thing, I don't see any impossibility in getting a majority in favour of a scheme to carry it out.
6098.
There appears to be, from all we have heard, with the hundreds of owners?—Perhaps
they may not believe in it, and therefore they won't join in.
You generally find in England, when the people believe in a thing, they set to work to do the thing.
The very fact of coming to all these sorts of Boards shows the peculiarity of the country.
You know we don't want the Boards in England.
We never' had them.
We carry on the work by the private initiative of individuals.
6099.
But take, for instance, a district which we have recently been examining, the Barrow, with 45,000 acres of land, which every winter are under water, where everyone from the highest to the lowest admits that something should be done to relieve the land from water.
Take that particular instance.
How would you initiate drainage work in that dis¬ trict.
Can you suggest anything.
We have heard so much about it that it hardly bears repetition, but at the present time the whole thing is at a standstill;
-— — for the cost of wrt.
Do I understand yonr propcj 5 ?Ltt
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*---proposal is that a Government department should do the work and tax the people without their consent at all ?—No,
I think not, indeed.
vi609?*.
Y^ say J0U want a *tvmS botJnfr, constituted like this Commission, to do the work, "i am asking you what is to be done in the future to prevent the stagnation of arterial drainage.
Failing a Conser-YJteL?>a!^,
lm ?aggest
t0 me a strang Government department choosing the best men they can.
But there are difficulties in that.
No Government now¬ adays can go and construct works and tax people without their eonsent?-No.
I am very glad you mentioned that.
I have not explained myself fully I will take an illustration.
Take the case of t£ conservators of fisheries.
We have a very coSioWaW« power in fact of enforcing fishery S^ ml ^l power, of construction.
At the
* same
'
time, we
mission, are_ asked to report on ?—I
think it would be presumption on my part to suggest a remedy on a subject that I have never examined in any sort of way whatever.
I should much prefer the vieAvs the Commission itself may put forward in a matter of the kind.
6100.
Our views will have to be largely formed on the evidence we get ?—I
will give you an opinion on iT13 iaIY^' I W&& not go to the Barrow.
I should like to ask a question if you would not judge it irrelevant.
How has this come about: is it by the upper drainage?
6101.
I may tell you, that to my mind, the erection of weirs across the river has been one of the great causes, weirs for fisheries and mill purposes, and the neglect of keeping open the channels of the rivers ?-
rs it from drainage also rushing off a great deal more-water than would be rushed off in the natural way?
