Loss of Steamship Titanic

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Document ID 9803378
Date 22-04-1912
Document Type Newspapers (Shipping News)
Archive Queen's University, Belfast
Citation Loss of Steamship Titanic;Hansard's Parliamentary Debates, 1912, 22 April, XXXVII, Ser. 5, Cols. 771-80.; CMSIED 9803378
21214
   LOSS OF STEAMSHIP "TITANIC."

            GOVERNMENT INQUIRY.

  Mr. BOTTOMLEY asked the President
of the Board of Trade whether he is aware
that many passenger ships are provided with
lifeboat accommodation sufficient only for
the conveyance of but a small portion of
the passengers and crew; that in many cases
lifeboat drill is carried out at very rare
intervals and in a very perfunctory manner;
that upon emergency it has been found that,
owing to long disuse, the lifeboat gear
has so deteriorated as to prevent the
proper launching of the boats; and
whether he can see his way to
introduce legislation to ensure that
passenger ships carry a sufficient number
of lifeboats to convey all the passengers
and crew; that the crew are adequately
drilled in their launching and manning;
and that all tackle is kept in perfect
condition?

  Colonel IVOR PHILIPPS asked the President
of the Board of Trade what number of boats
and of what capacity the steamship "Titanic"
was supposed to carry; what number of passengers
and crew she was licensed to carry; what number
of boats and their capacity she actually carried,
and what number of passengers and crew when she
left Southampton on Wednesday, 10th inst,; and
whether the Board of Trade have power to
compel the carrying of sufficient boats to
hold all the passengers and crew conveyed by a
vessel; and, if not, whether he will immediately
introduce legislation to give the Board of
Trade such power or give facilities for such
a measure to be passed into law if introduced
by a Private Member?

  Mr. JOHN WARD asked the President of the
Board of Trade whether his attention has
been called to the alleged absence of
proper and sufficient life-boat accommodation
on board British passenger ships; and
whether his Department are now in a
position to take action in accordance
with his statement on the 11th December last?

  Mr. FRANCE asked the President of the Board
of Trade (1) what number of lifeboats was
carried by the "Titanic"; and what are the
requirements of the Board of Trade with
regard to lifeboats for ships of this
size; (2) if he is prepared to hold an
immediate inquiry into the necessity and
practicability of large passenger steamers
carrying and using at night powerful search
lights?

  Mr. J. WARD asked the correct number
of passengers, men, women, and children,
carried by the "Titanic," first, second,
and third class, separately; the number
of each class saved from the wreck, separately;
and the proportion of passengers saved in
each class to the total in each class?

  Mr. JOWETT asked what percentage of first,
second, and third-class passengers, respectively,
compared with the number of passengers carried,
were saved from the recent wreck of the ss.
"Titanic," the percentage of women passengers
of each class who were saved, and also the
percentage of men who were saved in like
comparison?

  Mr. DOUGLAS HALL asked the names of the
members of the Merchant Shipping Advisory
Committee that reported to the Board of
Trade on the proposed alterations of the regulations
relating to saving life at sea, and by whom
they were appointed and the interests that they
represented?

  Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKE asked the President
of the Board of Trade, whether, in view of
recent events, he will consider the advisability
of making such regulations as will ensure that,
on all vessels equipped with the Marconi system of
telegraphy, a sufficient number of
operators are on board to secure constant
attendance at the instrument by night and
day?

  Mr. DOUGLAS HALL asked the Prime Minister
whether the Government are prepared, in view
of the grave loss of life which attended the
wreck of the "Titanic," to appoint a
Committee to inquire into the question of
the precautions taken on board vessels of
the mercantile marine to prevent disaster at
sea, and in particular the supply of searchlights,
boats, and life-saving devices generally, as well
as the efficacy of the existing Board of
Trade regulations, with a view to the
adoption of more effective means in the future?

  Mr. BUXTON: Many of the particulars
asked for were given by me to the House in
my statement on Thursday last. I do not
propose to repeat those particulars,
but I am sending a copy of the statement
containing them to the hon. Members who
have asked for the same details. The
number of passengers on board the "Titanic"
when she left Southampton was 922, and the crew
numbered 892.  Additional passengers were
taken on board at Cherbourg and Queenstown,
making the total persons on board,
according to the Board of Trade information,
2,208, as stated by me on Thursday. As regards
the percentage of passengers classified
according to sex and class whose lives were
saved, I regret that my information does
not yet enable me to give a complete and
accurate reply.  As soon as the particulars
are available, I will circulate them with
the Votes.
  As regards the performance of boat drill,
the Merchant Shipping Act requires that boats
and other live-saving appliances on board
any ship shall be kept so as to be at all
times fit and ready for use, and if any
case comes to the knowledge of the Board
of Trade in which this requirement is not
complied with, the case is investigated
and proceedings are instituted if necessary.
I am having printed with the Votes copy of
a notice to owners and masters issued at the
end of 1908, calling their special attention
to this matter. Further, the boats of all
passenger steamers are inspected by the
Board's surveyors at least once a year, and
the boats of emigrant ships are inspected
before each voyage, special attention being
paid to the arrangements for launching the
boats. The Board of Trade have full power
under the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, to
make and enforce rules prescribing the
number and description of the boats and
other life-saving appliances to be carried
by British ships. The rules must be laid
before Parliament for forty days before
coming into operation, but no legislation
is required to make them effective. Should,
however, the course of the inquiry about
to be held indicate that the powers of the
Board of Trade require to be supplemented
in any manner, I shall not hesitate to ask
Parliament at once to enact the necessary
legislation.
  I have already informed the House that
the whole of the questions of safety
raised by the disaster will be submitted
to searching examination. Steps are being
taken at once to constitute the strongest
possible Court of Inquiry to investigate
the circumstances of the loss of the
"Titanic," and in consequence of the
exceptional gravity of the case I am
in communication with the Lord Chancellor
with a view, if possible, to the special
appointment of a person recognised as of
high judicial authority as a Wreck
Commissioner, under Section 477 of the
Merchant Shipping Act, 1894. The Commissioner
so appointed would form an independent
Court, sitting with assessors, for the purpose
of this Inquiry. Meanwhile the Merchant Shipping
Advisory Committee is meeting at once to
consider not only the matters previously
referred back to them by the Board of Trade
in accordance with the statement made by me
on Thursday last, but also the new
situation which has now arisen, and its
bearing on the question not only of boat
accommodation, but on a number of matters
affecting the question of safety at sea
which have been raised in a more or less
new form by the present disaster. Some of
these questions cannot probably be
cleared up finally until the Court of
Inquiry has completed its investigation,
but some of them - e.g., the routes
for passenger ships across the Atlantic,
the speed of such ships under certain
conditions, the use of searchlights,
the operation of wireless telegraphy,
etc. - can be examined, at all events,
in a preliminary manner without
awaiting the verdict of the Court, and
I am extremely anxious that there should
be no avoidable delay. I am having the
names and other particulars, of the
members of the Merchant Shippping Advisory
Committee printed with the Votes.
  When I have received Reports both of
the Court of Inquiry and of the Merchant
Shipping Advisory Committee, I shall be
in a position to advise the House whether
further investigation is reqiured by
a Committee or Commission of Inquiry,
either of a national or of an international
character.  The House may also like to know
that the Board of Trade have convened a
meeting of representatives of the principal
British shipping companies which own great
passenger ships for the purpose of an immediate
exchange of views as to the measures contemplated
by the companies themselves, pending the revision
of the statutory rules.

  Mr. BONAR LAW: May I ask the right hon.
Gentleman if, in the case of any inquiry
he makes or any Regulations he enforces,
he will consider the advisability of
making them apply not only to British
ships, but all foreign ships that take
British passengers at our ports?

  Mr. BUXTON: I will certainly consider
the point.

  Sir GILBERT PARKER: May I repeat the
question I asked the other day, Have the
Board of Trade power to make Regulations
to compel the practice of manning and
lowering boats on board ship, and for the
captain to make a report at the close of
a voyage concerning such practice; and do any
such Regulations exist as well as the power
to make them?

  Mr. BUXTON: Does the hon. Member mean that
at the end of the voyage the captain of a
particular ship shall report in regard to
the method in which the boat drill has been
carried out?  We have powers, as I have
already stated, when a ship is leaving port -
and we always carry those powers out - to
see that there is a proper complement of
boats under the Regulations, and that proper
arrangements are made for launching them.

  Sir G. PARKER: Have the Board of Trade
made Regulations which compel that boat
practice - manning and lowering boats -
during the voyage?

  Mr. CROOKS: Is a log kept, and is such
log ever submitted to the Board of Trade?

  Mr. BUXTON: I should like notice of both
those questions.

  Sir FORTESCUE FLANNERY: May I ask the
right hon. Gentleman if the Government
will consider the subject of approaching
other Governments whose ships navigate
the Atlantic with passengers - Russia,
Germany, France, Italy, Norway, and
Sweden - with a view to having an
international convention by which
fresh legislation for the safety of
passengers may be uniform for all vessels
carrying passengers of whatever nationality?

  Mr. BUXTON: That is a matter to which we shall
give very careful attention, in the light
of the evidence which will be given before
the Commission, and of other inquires we are
making.  It is a matter we have very much
in our minds.

  Sir F. FLANNERY: Having regard to the delay
which must necessarily arise in connection with
these inquiries, will the Government consider the
suggestion of approaching other Governments through
the proper channel, in the meantime, in a
preliminary way?

  Mr. BUXTON: That is under consideration.

  Major ARCHER-SHEE: Will there be an
opportunity of discussing the salary of
the right hon. Gentleman at an early date
with reference to the responsibility of
the Board of Trade in regard to the
provision of boats?

  Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSON: May I ask whether,
under the existing Acts, the right hon.
Gentleman has power to make Regulations
with regard to the provision of a relief
Marconi operator on board ship, and if
not, will he consider the advisability
of obtaining such power?

  Mr. BUXTON: I have no such power. I think
I said in my answer that the question of
the condition of the wireless installation
on board these ships, and the question of
the operators, are matters to which we
shall give particular attention.
  Sir HENRY DALZIEL: What is the nature,
scope, and power of the Board of Inquiry
to which the right hon. Gentleman has
referred?  Is it a Board of Trade inquiry,
a special Commission, or a Parliamentary
inquiry, or what is the intention?  Further,
what steps has he taken up to the present
time to secure that the evidence of the
passengers and crew of the "Titanic" on
board the "Lapland" will be available
for the inquiry?

  Mr. BUXTON: I think I have given sufficient
indication already.  It will be an inquiry
into the circumstances of the wreck of
the "Titanic," and I hope the Court
will be one that will give the public
confidence.  Undoubtedly they will have
power to go into all those points, and
take evidence not only with regard
to the "Titanic," but other ships, as
they think advisable, in the interests
of the inquiry.

  Sir H. DALZIEL: How is the Court to
be appointed?  Is it to be a Board of
Trade inquiry or a Parliamentary
inquiry, and what steps has the right
hon. Gentleman taken to secure that the
evidence of the passengers and crew now
coming to this country will be available?

  Mr. BUXTON: In the ordinary way courts
of inquiry are appointed by the Board of
Trade, but in this particular case, which
is one of such moment, we are extremely
anxious that there should be no question
of want of public confidence in the
competence of the tribunal.  As I
have said, I have been in communication
with the Lord Chancellor with a view
to having a special Wreck Commissioner,
a man of high judicial authority, to sit
with assessors who represent the varied
knowledge which is necessary for the
Commission.  They will undoubtedly have
full power to make the fullest inquiry
from anyone affected, or anyone whom
they like to call.

  Sir H. DALZIEL: Is it to be a special
Commission, and what about the passengers?

  Mr. BUXTON: Undoubtedly.
  Sir H. DALZIEL: Is the right hon. Gentleman
taking any steps to ensure that all the crew
and passengers will not be scattered all over
the country - I will not suggest anything
further - before their evidence is taken fresh
on their arrival in this country?

  Mr. BUXTON: I have no power to subpoena
the passengers and the crew, but we are taking
steps as rapidly as we can to appoint this
Court, and as soon as they are constituted
they will have the full powers which my hon.
friend desires.

  Mr. CROOKS: Have we not the same power
to compel the attendance of witnesses as
the American Senate?  Surely we have as
much right, nay, more right than they
have?

  Mr. BUXTON: We have no such power.

  Mr. CROOKS : Then ask the House to give
it to you.

  Mr. BUXTON: I do not think the House need
anticipate any difficulty in regard to
this matter.  I hope to-morrow, or as
rapidly as possible, to be able to
announce the names of the Court, and
when constituted they will have full
powers.

  Sir H. DALZIEL: Will the right hon.
Gentleman request the White Star Company
that the members of the crew of the "Titanic"
now on their way to this country be kept
here in order to see whether their evidence
is required by the Commission?

  Mr. BUXTON: Undoubtedly that is necessary.
The Court, as constituted, will have full power
to enforce the attendance of those persons
whose evidence they require.

  Sir H. DALZIEL: The crew may be scattered
to all parts of the world.

  Lord CHARLES BERESFORD: Will the right hon.
Gentleman be very careful that every passenger,
officer, or man, who can give evidence on the case
of the "Titanic," is detained in this country, and will
he be very careful to prevent what occurred
in the case of the "Oceana," in which
officers who manned the boats, and were
only able to pull oars, were allowed to
leave this country before they gave their
evidence?

  Mr. BUXTON: I have no power to detain
anyone, either passengers or crew.

  Mr. CROOKS: Then get power.

  Mr. BUXTON: As I have already stated,
the Commission will have full powers to
secure the evidence they require. I
desire to have this a strong and independent
Court, and I think the House will agree
that the less I interfere with the
proceedings the better. They will have
full responsibility and power, as soon
as they are constituted, of dealing with
the whole matter.

  Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKE rose-

  Mr. SPEAKER: We must proceed with the other
questions.

              WITNESSES.

  Mr. WHITEHOUSE: I desire to ask the
President of the Board of Trade a
question of which I have given private
notice, namely, whether he will state to
the House the steps he proposes to take in
order to keep all the members of the "Titanic"
crew in this country on their arrival,
and to ensure that the evidence of the whole
of them will be available?

  Mr.BUXTON: I thought I had already
explained to the House that I should
use such powers as I have to ensure
the necessary attendance of both passengers
and crew, and that, as soon as the Court
to which I have referred is constituted,
their attendance will be required by the
Court.

  Sir H. DALZIEL: Will the right hon. Gentleman
address a letter to the White Star Line direct
asking for an assurance that every member of
the crew will be kept available till such time
as he informs them he does not require their
attendance.

  Sir FORTESCUE FLANNERY: Will the right hon.
Gentleman communicate to all the shipping
companies throughout the country the names
of the crew of the "Titanic," and instruct
the shipmasters not to ship these men for
fresh voyages until after the inquiry?

  Mr. BUXTON: I venture to say that in one
way it would not be necessary for me to
communicate with the White Star Company
in regard to this matter, because, I feel
sure, from the communications I have
already had with them, that they court
the fullest inquiry.  At the same time I
had intended to communicate with them
officially from the Board of Trade with
regard to this very matter.

  Sir H. DALZIEL: Will the right hon.
Gentleman do it? That is what I have asked.

  Mr. BUXTON: Yes. I have said so.

  Sir H. DALZIEL: You did not say so.

       MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT.

  Mr. CROOKS: In view of the unsatisfactory
replies - we have no confidence in them at
all - I ask leave to Move the Adjournment
of the House in order to call attention
to a definite matter of urgent public
importance, namely, the necessity of the
Board of Trade taking immediate steps to
secure that the officers, crew, and passengers
of the "Titanic," now on their way to this
country, may be available as witnesses for
any official inquiry that may be held.

  The pleasure of the House not having
been signified, Mr. Speaker called on
those Members who supported the Motion
to rise in their places, and not less
than forty Members having accordingly
risen, the Motion stood over, under
Standing Order No. 10, until a quarter-past
eight this evening.

  Mr. DENMAN: Has the Board of Trade any power
to do this?

  Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. Member is too late to
put that question. I do not know whether
the Board of Trade have any power to do
what hon. Members wish them to do. The Board
of Trade will have an opportunity of
pointing that out this evening.  I am not
sufficiently well acquainted with the law
to be able to pronounce straight away a
judgment concerning the matter.

     FOREIGN MESSAGES OF SYMPATHY.

  Mr. SPEAKER: I beg to inform the House
that I have received the following
telegrams:-
                     "St. Petersburg,
                           "April 20th.
  "The President and the Members of
the Bureau of the Imperial Duma beg
you to convey to the House of Commons
the sentiments of their mournful
sympathy on the occasion of the tragic
loss of the "Titanic," and their sincere
condolences with the countless victims
of this terrible catastrophe.

  "The President of the Imperial Duma,
                MICHAEL DE RODZIANKO."

  "To the House of Commons,
          "London.

  "The Senate of the Republic of
Cuba in Session held yesterday resolved
unanimously to express its condolences
through the Honourable House of Commons
to the English nation for the loss of
life in the terrible disaster of the
s.s 'Titanic.'"

         "DR. ANTONIO GONZALO PEREZ,
            "President of the Senate."

  The House no doubt will desire me to
send suitable replies.