Minutes of evidence and appendices; with indexes (volume II, part II), Ireland

Back to Search Bibliographic Data Print
56 minutes of evidence A"d. 
3/orrissey, Ctonme7 Corporation. 

Benefit from development. 

r 13673. 
You said that the development of the river would be a very great benefit to the county Tipperary. 
Of course Clonmel is in the south of Tipperary ?—Yes. 
Sf 13674. 
Do you suppose, therefore, that the effect of that improvement would be felt throughout the whole county of Tipperary ?—It 
would to a very large extent, in this way, that if we had a ready means of transit to Waterford —to the sea I would put it—we could afford to pay better prices for agricultural produce and consequently more oats would reach Clonmel, for instance, in the case oi grain. 
Clonmel is a very large oats market, and much more oats would come to Clonmel if we had a cheaper means of delivering the oats at the sea. 
To Clonmel for delivery where ?—At 
W^aterford, of course ; Waterford is our natural port. 
lam speaking now of the possibility of develop¬ ing the traffic with the interior of county Tipperary ?— 
I have myself bought oats within a few miles of Thurles. 
What distance would that be ?—About 
twenty-two miles. 
Have you brought them by road ?—By 
train into Clonmel. 
Barley is largely sold from the Thurles district in Clonmel. 
Do you mean to tell us, then, that it would be cheaper to bring them by train from, say, near Thurles to Clonmel and then to tranship them and bring them to Waterford than to take them by rail all the way to Waterford ?—In 
this way—that the traders in Clonmel are more direct traders with farmers than any of the people in W7aterford are, and for centuries it has been the great market town for the sale of grain and butter in the county Tipperary ? 
Have you any figures at all about the amount 

of traffic on the river at present ?—I 
have thought it out; I have not had much connection with the river for ten years now but I should think about 20,000 tons —that is for Clonmel and some smaller places between Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir. 
You expressed a preference for the State taking in hand the improvement of the river ; why do you think that it should be a matter for the State rather than for the locality directly interested in it ?—In 
this way— there seems a movement all round to promote Irish industries ; a great deal of money has been spent in technical education, and I am sorry to say that up to this time it seems to me to be all theory and very little practice. 
If that technical education is to be utilised and made a permanent benefit to the country you must establish industries. 
I assume that in the future those industries will be established. 
I say it would be impossible, or almost impossible, for those industries to thrive unless they had a cheap means of transit so as to compete with other countries. 
State control 13682. 
WTiat reason have you to suppose that if the 

State were to take in hand the improvement of the river the rates would be greatly reduced ?—The 
State would not be looking for a, profit on the freight at all, and they would only want to treat it so that they should get a sufficient interest for the money that would be expended. 
Private people look for profit. 

Do you think it would be possible to pay the 

interest on the money and to reduce the rates ?—I 
do think it would. 
Could you give us any idea of the rates at Ratea. 
present charged for goods ?—I 
can on all the principal goods going in there, but Mr. 
Grubb is much more con¬ versant with that matter, and you might ask him. 
You say there is no guarantee of delivery of goods and that is a great hindrance in the way of develop¬ ment of traffic. 
I understood you to say further that it takes something like six hours between Carrick-on-Suir and Clonmel ?—Yes. 
Could you expect a much more rapid delivery than that by railway ; they do not run a special train for you ?—I 
would be sure to get it off by rail, whereas if I sent it off by boat, if there was an adverse tide and strong winds the boat might not be able to reach Water¬ ford in time. 
You might have a flood, and although the owner of the boat had fully intended to deliver in time he might fail to do so. 

I understand that. 
I am to assume, then, that if you get a fair passage you have nothing to complain of in the matter of time ?—I 
think they do the work fairly well and cheaply. 
I was rather surprised to hear that the butter trade does not appear to be quite so extensive as I should have anticipated. 
Would you expect a development of the butter traffic if you had these improvements made ? 
I suppose it is not for you to answer the next question I might suggest: have any estimates been made as to the cost of the improvements needed ?—I 
am not aware. 
Has any definite scheme been prepared ?—I 
do not think there has recently ; I was merely asked by the corporation to give general evidence. 
We are not in possession of any facts as to cost as Mr. 
Snowden has asked you, or anything of that kind ? 
—I could not supply figures. 
You do not think there are any insuperable difficulties ?—I 
do not think so ; some of the other schemes might turn out very practicable, bub I think if you want to deal with it it ought to be dealt with in a comprehensive fashion. 
When you speak of Tipperary do you mean both ridings or only the South Riding ?— 
The South Riding only. 
Are you not getting a free bridge at Waterford now ?—We 
hope so in the near future. 
The funds are there and all is ready ?—I 
do not think so ; I think there are very great difficulties in the way still. 

When the grain gets to Waterford what do you do with it; is it for home consumption or shipment ?— 
For shipment principally. 
Do the barges go alongside the ship ?—Yes. 
And in that way the barges are rather more convenient ?—They 
are, both in unloading at Waterford and loading at Clonmel. 

The Witness withdrew. 

'V Mr. 
Ebnest Grubb, called in -. 
and Examined. 
J {Certain of the Statements handed in by Witness are Ernes* Grvbh, printed as Appendix No. 
jSfwir Steam Navigation 1369Q. 
You live at Carrick-on-Suir and Company, are a Justice of the Peace ?—I 
live near Carrick-on-Suir 

the county of Waterford. 
3 Or'. 

Sub Steam Navigation Ucrnp nj*. 

Y"ou are Chairman of the County Council of the South Riding of Tipperary ?—Yes. 
You are also appointed to give evidence by the CtS. 
ick-on-Suir Urban Council ?—Yes. 
Are you managing owner of the Suir Navigation Company ?—Of 
the Suir Steam Navigation Company ; if you will allow me I want to draw a distinction between that and the River Suir Navigation Company. 

Suir Steam Navigation Company is a private firm, while the River Suir Navigation Company is an incorporated company by Act of Parliament of 1836. 
Is that River Suir Navigation Company which is incorporated by the Act of 1836 in active existence ?— 
Yes, as active as it is possible considering its exceedingly attenuated income. 
It has a small income from tolls ?—Yes, 
from tolls and from rents. 
And such income as it receives does it spend on the improvement of the river ?—It 
spends the whole of its income on the improvement of the river. 


Have you any statistics which you can hand %°„'tement in as regards that ?—Yes, 
I will hand them in.