M
MINUTES of evidence Aid.
T P.
3IorrisAcy, Clonmel Corporation.
3 Oct.
1906.
13596.
How many men are required besides the eleven horses to get boats through from Carrick-on-Suir to Clonmel ?—From
three to four.
13597.
Do I understand the eleven horses haul two boats at a time ?—It
would be the division of a full boat load thev would carry, that is 40 tons spread over two boats, as I have described to you, lightened at Carrick-on-Suir.
13598.
When the river is low can they take more than two boats ?—They
could take three, what they call two lighters and one principal boat.
13599.
How many hours are occupied in making the journey between Carrick-on-Suir and Clonmel ?—In
the ordinary time about five or six hours, but of course if there were floods there would be stoppages, and they would not do it so rapidly.
13600.
This system is the same wdiich has existed during all the time that the river has been navigated ?—
Yes, it was the same in ancient times ; but they were sometimes hauled by men and women too with ropes.
Importance 13601.
Is this navigation of great importance to the of Navigation sonth part of ^ countv 0f Tipperary ?—Of
very great
importance indeed.
13602.
And also to the counties of Waterford and Kil¬ kenny ?—That
is so.
13603.
WTiat is the use of it to Clonmel ?—The
river quay comes to the very centre of the town, while the railway station is a considerable distance off, so that the river is really the most convenient and the natural way of taking corn and butter and bringing up coal, grain, and all such -articles from Waterford.
The boats are very convenient, inasmuch as they go alongside the steamer and load directly from the steamers into those boats.
You have cartage in the case of the railway company, wrhich is a pretty heavy item.
13604.
You have described traffic both up stream and down stream, which is the larger of the two ?—I
should think at present the up is much the larger.
13605.
Clonmel receives more by the river than it sends away ?—That
is so, and one of the reasons of that is owing to the uncertainty with which the boats will deliver goods.
People very often cannot give loading to the boats, inasmuch as they would not be sure they would catch the steamers at Waterford, owing to the uncertainty of the delivery.
13606.
If they want to make sure they prefer the rail¬ road ?—They
have to do so.
13007.
Is the river, in your opinion, worked well for the public benefit now ?—Well,
it is in the hands of two private companies; the one being the Suir Steam Naviga¬ tion Company; that is for the hauling of the boats, and is a distinct company, but the principal boat owners are traders as well, and they bring a large quantity of their own goods as well as goods for the public and freight.
13008.
Are there any other carriers on the river be-sider those two companies ?—Not
at Clonmel, not trading direct with Clonmel.
13609.
Below Carrick-on-Suir there are a number ?—
That is so.
13610.
You think the interests of these two "com¬ panies are sometimes not the same as the public interest ?
—Well, I have no direct proof, but I should think that sometimes they would clash, that their own vital interests a£ private traders would clash with the public interests, and I think it would be more desirable if there was a large public company for carrying purposes only.
13611.
Could you give any facts to show that they do -clash ?—Well,
suppose an ordinary person had loading and one of the owners of those boats had loading at the same time of a similar class, I can quite conceive that if there was pressure brought on the owner of the boat to get his own goods on he might give a preference, especially' as he is not bound to time.
13612.
Has that happened in your experience ?—I
would rather not say, if you will allow me.
At the same time I would like to say, that the gentlemen who are on those two companies are deserving of every credit, because under the most adverse circumstances they kept on the boats and kept on a competition with the railway company.
,
_
The working of the Navigation.
13613.
Is cue of your suggestions that if the river were in better navigable condition other traders would have boats upon the river and that that would be for the advantage of the traders of Clonmel ?—That
is exactly what I want to impress on your Lordship and the other gentlemen, that the means of passage should be such and the cost of haulage so trifling that it would enable men of moderate means to put their own boats there and get them hauled inexpensively.
13614.
Are the rates charged by these two companies heavy ?—Well,
they are necessarily heavy—fairly heavy.
13615.
Their expenses must be heavy owing to having to use so many horses ?—It
is computed that from Carrick-on-Suir to Clonmel the cost would be about Is.
6d.
a ton.
That is the actual cost.
13616.
What would it be all the way between Water¬ ford and Clonmel ?—It
varies with the classes of goods that are brought.
13617.
I suppose these two carriers carry right down to Waterford ?—Oh
yes, both to Waterford.
13618.
What do you consider the chief defects which pre-Defects vent the people of Clonmel from benefiting to the full from the waterway ?—The
lowness of the water in dry weather, such as we have had, and the rapids and the floods being so great at times when the very towpath, as they call it, or trackway, is submerged altogether—covered with water—and they cannot haul at all.
13619.
Does that occur for many weeks in the year ?—I
have often known it to occur.
13620.
Does it go on for some weeks together ?—Yes,
it would.
13621.
Are there also several rapids ?—Very
many.
13622.
Wnat are the improvements that you consider are required ?—There
are many proposals and suggestions put forward, but I think there ought to be some canalisa¬ tion of some class.
13623.
Without such canalisation it would not be possible for.many
people to put boats upon the river and navigate profitably ?—There
are other proposals they say, by doing away with these rapids and other improvements of perhaps a much smaller nature than I contemplate, of which the cost would not be so great and the work would go on more uniformly, but then I fear that it will not provide a means of transit of sufficient cheapness to make it be availed of largely by other men who would be in¬ clined to buy boats and work them there.
It would require a very big change on the whole thing in order to make it really effective.
13624.
Has there ever been a large scheme for con-Scheme necting the Suir with the Shannon through Tipperary ?—
proposed.
Yes, it was often mooted.
13625.
Has that been seriously considered ?—Well,
I am not aware that it has in recent years, but undoubtedly it was contemplated to be done many years ago.
Mr.
Grubb, who will be the witness coming after me, will be able to give you much more information about that as he has made it the study of his life I may say.
13626.
Do you think this is a matter of local interest or do you think it is a matter of interest for the whole of Ireland ?—I
believe it ought to be treated as a State or national question.
13627.
Do you think there would be a disposition on the part of Clonmel and the counties concerned to contribute ?
—Well, I think much would depend on the nature of the scheme and how it would be financed; already urban districts are very much taxed in recent years.
Clonmel, for instance, has been improving its sanitation and getting in new waterworks and the taxes have gone up and at present we keep the quay in repair, and for a mile along the towpath also, and all boats are loaded and unloaded at Clonmel free of charge of any kind ; so that we do a good deal for the boats in that way.
13628.
Are there any tolls on the river ?—I
am reminded Tolls.
by the town clerk that we pay one-eighth towards the cost of the trackway, between Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir.
Of course the county council supply the funds, and we pay one-eighth of that.
13629.
How are the other seven-eighths divided ?
The county Tipperary.
I may mention the trackway is on the Tipperary side of the river.
