Minutes of evidence and appendices; with indexes (volume II, part II), Ireland

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13732, Ei-nest Gruhb —Yes. 
Suir Steam Navigation Company. 

Do you mean carrying 300 tons ? 
That is the maximum, is it ?—Yes, 
that is the largest fea-going craft that has traded to Carrick-on-Suir quay. 
3 Oct. 
What would be about the usual load of boats 

navigating up as far as Carrick-on-Suir ?—That 
infor-U&ual load, rnation is contained in the very next paragraph I was 

going to read ; 60 tons is the maximum. 
You said just now that the maximum was 300 ? 
—WTiat I intended to convey, my Lord, w as this, that the sea-going craft Avhich reach Carriek-on-Suir, or which have done so in the past, attain a maximum of 300 tons burden. 
The craft used in the inland navigation attain a maximum of 60 tons. 
These were the very next words I was going to read. 
When you speak of the inland navigation, do you mean the navigation above Carrick ?—No, 
I call inland navigation everything above the sea. 
(Lord Brassey.) 
Everything above Waterford. 
(Lord Kcnyon.) 
Not necessarily above Water¬ ford ; it might be round to New Ross ?—Yes, 
that is the reason I said *' above the sea." 
I do not quite understand your telling me that sometimes boats carrying 300 tons come up to Carrick from W'aterford from the sea, and then you tell me that the maximum burden of the boats navigating this navigation is 60 tons ?—That 
is so. 
(Lord Kenyan.) 
The 60-ton barges will not go to sea ?—Just 
(Sir John Dorington.) 
The vessels of 300 tons can go up to Carrick and below those vessels of 300 tons there is another class which carry only 60 tons ?—Yes, 
they are only 60-ton boats. 
A barge carries 60 tons, but the sea-going vessel which goes up to Carrick has a maximum of 300 tons ; is that it ?—Yes. 
(Lord Kenyon.) 
And it is only on exceptional tides that the 300-ton vessel can get up ?—Only 
on spring tides. 
And that does not often occur now ?—I 
have just said that for some jTears no such sized vessel has come up to Qarriek. 
We may dismiss that vessel ?—Yes. 
What is about the usual load brought up to Carrick ?—15 
tons would be the average ; some boats are 30 tons and some 60, and 45 would be about the average. 
Are there a number of villages or hamlets between Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir which are served by this Navigation ?—There 
is only one village between Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir, but there are a number of villages and hamlets served directly by the Navigation between Clonmel and Waterford. 
Are there also some navigable tributaries of the Suir ?—Yes. 
Where are they ?—Between 
Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir there are none; between Carrick-on-Suir and Waterford there are several, as the Pilltown River, Portlaw Pill, where the River Clodiagh falls into the Suir, Pouldrew Mill, which is situated on a Pill away from the river, and Kilmacow Pill, 13750. 
Is that the Black River which is navigable there ?—I 
think it is called on the map the Black River. 
Below Waterford there are others, as Campile Pill near Dunbrody Abbey. 
What size of boats can get up to those places ? 
Up the tributaries about 30 tons or 35. 
We heard from the last witness that there has to be transhipment at Carriek-on-Suir in order to carry on the goods which are brought up as far as Carrick ?— 
Yes, transhipment of a portion of each cargo. 
Do you confirm what the witness told us about that ?—Yes, 
I would say it this way; in good water two barges carry 40 tons to Clonmel; at the present moment three barges carry only 26 to 28 tons to Clonmel, the river being exceptionally low. 

Has each barge a crew of two men and occasion¬ ally three ?—Each 
barge has a crew of two men. 
WTiat are the measurements of these barges ?— 
66 feet long and 15 or 16 feet wide on the bottom, which is flat. 

How are these barges brought up as far as H , Carrick ?—By 
steam tugs. 
There is only one steam tvg 

l l age' plying regularly; also one steam barge, and there is another tug which plies occasionally. 
The steam barge plies pretty regularly, but the boats occasionally go by their own sails and sweeps. 
The sweeps are 40-feet oars. 

From Carrick-on-Suir to Clonmel how are they hauled ?—They 
are hauled against the heavy current described by eleven or twelve horses, dragging two boats carrying 40 tons when there is water enough. 
What does that cost ?—This 
traction costs about Is. 
to Is. 
per ton burden for the 14 miles. 
Then going down river do the barges float from Clonmel to Carrick ?—They 
float or sail from Clonmel to Carrick. 
What are the difficulties which have to be overcome in order to navigate this river ?—The 
deepening of the shallows and the lessening of the rapids wouli improve the navigation. 
Are you much troubled with winter floods ?— 
Yes, in some winters the navigation has been stopped for periods of from six to eight weeks. 
That is rather unusual. 
A stoppage for three or four wreeks consecutively is exceptional. 
If you could have a more uniform depth of water getting rid of these shallows in summer and these floods in winter, would the cost of transit to Clonmel be greatly diminished ?—Yes, 
if we had some system of mechanical haulage, w hich is a necessity. 
I do no t suppose that with horse haulage the cost could be very much diminished, in fact it would be impossible to reduce the volume of flood by any means so low that horse? 
could haul when the river is much flooded ; but some form of mechanical haulage would reduce the cost of transit materially. 
Do you think that considerable improvements impime. 
could be made at a moderate cost ?—Without 
Canalisation would cost a great deal, I am afraid. 
Can you refer to any Reports made on this Mr. 
Kilt" subject ?—In 
1821 John Killaly, engineer on behalf of the Repjrt, !\ 
Directors General of Inland Navigation, reported on the river, and his Report is on the table, and his map and section of the Suir is also on the table, and he advocated the system of spur weirs (which was following what the Irish Parliament had already done with the £15,000 grant at an earlier period) and clearing the navigable channels. 
He also put in another plan with canalisation of the river from Carrick-on-Suir to Clonmel and on to the Shannon. 
What has become of those spur weirs you say were put in by the Irish Parliament ?—They 
are now exceedingly dilapidated; they have been occasionally repaired by the owners of boats on the river, who appear to have no legal right to do so. 
Could you describe what a spur weir is to the Commission ?—A 
bank of loose stones constructed from one bank obliquely towards the centre of the river so as to turn the current of water into the navigable channel. 
Is it usual to set them alternately on the one side of the river and the other ?—They 
are nearly all constructed on the south or Waterford side of the river, because the towpath is on the other side, and the desire is to bring the water as much as possible to the north side of the river. 
(Lord Brassey.) 
The spur weirs do not diminish the strength of the current, but they increase the navigable depth of the channel ?—They 
probably make the current more uniform ; they increase the current at one place and lessen it at another. 
They increase the depth of the water available for navigation ?—Yes. 
You asked me about the Reports, my Lord : shall I refer to another Report ? 

We will finish with Mr. 
Killaly's ioid. 
Report: what did he say were the chief impediments ? 

Appi-'ivw Xo. 
Stati h>rt Xo.