Law and practice in respect to the occupation of land in Ireland: minutes of evidence: part II

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See Dr. 

Evidence, /W*. 

7th September, 1844. 
Hickson may givo constant employment; but they are generaUy very badly off There was a new Hue of road carried on towards the county of Cork. 
Numbers of th 

were employed, and numbers of them afterwards were dismissed in great distress. 
Mauv^f them came to me, and appHed to me to get them work. 
I got some of them work by some means. 
Have there been any agrarian outrages connected with tho taldng of land ? 
No not that I know of; I have not heard of any. 
The country, in general, is very quiet 

' 24. 
Have you any suggestions you would wish to make to the commissioners ? 
Trinity CoUcgo have raised their lands very high, and they have destroyed them by the enormous fines upon every renewal. 
We formerly renewed every five years, ancl the property made for the college £270 a year, and there was upon that a fine. 
In the year 1808, they had made an increase in the rent of £06 10s.; 
in four years afterwards (in 1812), they put 'an increase upon it of £161 10s. 
In thc year 1820, they had laid on an mcrease of rent of £100 a year. 
It now amounts to £600 a year to the coUege, and there is £270 °*oma-to Mr. 
Orpen, who is the immediate tenant of tho coHege. 
Tho college get about £200 a -year fine. 
I happen to know the tenants; and the tenants are obliged, under articles, to "pay this fine upon every renewal, and Mr. 
Orpen gets his £270 clear profit. 

How often clo the renewals take place now ?—Every 
In the year 1820, the fine was 5s. 
in tho pound, and the two years' fine 10s. 
The third year they had raised it 6s. 
in thc pound, and they raised it considerably after that. 
In case there was not a renewal they had it for two years without an increase. 
In the year 1820 they made an altera¬ tion—they made it 5s. 
for the first year, and 12s. 
for the second year. 
We are tin-own back now. 
They had it free for throe years previous to 1820. 
We wish to keep the cohVe at a distance. 
The immediate tenant gets tho lease, and we have the immediate tenant bound to give us some term. 
Do you think there would be more improvement upon this property if there was a power of purchasing the perpetuity ?—Yes; 
I am sure of it. 
Wc had improved more upon the coUege lands than upon the Marquess's; but now we are beaten out, in consequence of the Marquess allowing for buUding houses. 
Does tho system of demanding rent quarterly or monthly, to winch you refer, apply to farms, and not merely to tenants in the town ?—No; 
it does not extend to any property but the particular set of farms belonging to Mr. 
The tenants are very weU pleased, with Mr. 
lie treats tho tenants hi a very easy manner. 

[ The witness withdrew.] 
Jeremiah O'Sullivan, sworn and examined. 
Where do you Hve ?—Gartlabud, 
in this parish, on the coHege estate. 
Who is your hnmediate landlord ?—Mr. 
Ducket Mabery. 
What quantity of ground do you hold ?—Forty-six 
acres, mostly barren land. 
Do you hold by lease ?—No, 
I do not; and that is the ruination of this wretched coUege estate—the worst managed estate in the world. 
What connection have you with the college ?—Nothing, 
except holding under Mr, Mabery. 
I was born on this miserable estate. 
From what does the misery arise ?—There 
is a sort of apathy for the tenants; they have no incHnation to benefit tho state of tho people, either their corporeal, moral, or rehgious good, only to get what they can out of it. 

Have you ever apj-Jied in any way to the coUege for assistance ?—I 
know whatever appHcation is made to tho coHego their answer was very concise—" Sir, we have no funds for" such and such a purpose. 

Did you over make an appHcation ?—Yes. 
In tho bad times our chapel wanted to be enlarged, and our priest seeing thc very miserable state of the poor, suggested there should be an appHcation made to the coUege to grant a Httle help, as Lord Lansdowne was good enough to give £100 towards it. 
He saw them in so miserable a state he wanted the coHege to give something, that there might be no demand upon the people. 
Did you ever apply to Mr. 
Ducket Mabery ?~-IIe 
is a Roman CathoHc, ancl contributed towards it. 

Do you ever make any appHcation to Mr. 
Mabery, or to the coHege, to help you to make your houses ?—I 
asked Mm to make some abatement, from the faH of the tunes; that it was impossible for us to meet our rent—that in humanity he ought to look to our forlorn state. 
And his answer was, as nearly as I can recoUect, and I am on my oatn, that if the coHege made some sacrifices he would, as far as Ms means afforded, be willing to meet them as far as he coidd. 
But I do not see that any sacrifices the middlemen coma make, from their means, could much benefit the people without the help of the coUege, but they are quite careless about it, they care nothing about it but to receive the ren they lay on. 
They come with the most exorbitant severity to seek for then-own. 
i known in the month of June the pound stuffed with the poor people's cattle, and tney n to stand barefooted to hold them by tho horns, to prevent the maddened animals gorm0 each other; and they would not lot them out on any ground. 
Who distrained them?—The 
agent of the college. 

_ __ pi ^ m rfirl0Yered 




See Dr. 


Were the people the direct tenants to the coUege ?—No; 
the middlemen recovw u^eir own parts, and the college has an agent to recover the remainder. 
They nav ^e^ to act undor themselves, coUecting so much for the coHege, and they pay it mto^^ ^ If the middlemen were as cruel as the coUege we could not stand it take 5s., 
and is more indulgent, 

UOiJ J-" *"• --

The middleman win*