28 MINUTES OF EVIDENCE BEFORE SELECT COMMITTEE Mr.
442.
Where 8 5.
more than the market price is charged for a barrel, what J W> B-Raynes.
would you suppose to be the average price of a barrel at that time ?—I
suppose —
a guinea or 1Z.
2 s.
24 May 1838.
443_ gQ thai g ^ interest wouicj in fact be charged upon about Ills, princi¬ pal for six months ?—Yes.
444.
Chairman.]
Will you state the difference in the amount of interest charged by you in one week, and the amount which would be charged upon simi¬ lar transactions, at the ordinary rate of interest taken by the pawnbrokers in Ireland?—On
12 May 1838, we released 174.1.
19 s.
7 d.
money lent, and our interest was 71.
I5s.2d.;
the pawnbrokers' interest on that sum would have been 17/.
Is.
11 ]d.,
so that the saving effected in one day to the poor, was 91.
6 s.
9d.
445.
When you say the pawnbrokers' interest, you mean the pawnbrokers' interest together with the sum charged by them for the duplicates ?—Yes.
446.
Do you suppose that a pawnbroker who charged that higher rate of interest, and lent so small a sum in proportion to the value of the pledge as you do, would have got as much business as you have done ?—There
are pawn¬ brokers in Limerick that do as much business, I believe, as we do.
447.
But then they accommodate the poor much more, inasmuch as they lend a larger sum in proportion to the value of the goods entrusted to their care?—Clearly
so.
448.
Mr.
Roche.]
Are they in the habit of giving such a proportion as two-thirds of the estimated value ?—Some
of them lend more than the goods would bring by auction ; they run the risk.
449.
Mr.
Young.]
"When they run that risk, do not you think they are entitled to a higher rate of profit ?—They
do it in order to do business, in oppo¬ sition to one another.
450.
Your business is much safer than theirs?—We
do not oppose them at all; we merely go on in our routine, and lend at our own rate of lending ; then, the competition is between themselves to do business.
451.
Do you think your business would be increased if you were to lend a larger sum upon each pledge ?—I
am sure it would.
The reason that 1 lend so low is, because the establishment was founded for the purpose of giving the overplus to the poor; and therefore if I lose upon one article in a sale, I cannot bring it up by putting the overplus upon other articles against it.
452.
Mr.
Lucas.]
In fact, your object is not trade, but benevolence ?—Yes.
453.
Mr.
Roche.]
You have already stated the advantage that your establish¬ ment affords to the public on the amount of a 1 s.
loan ; can you state what would he the difference of interest upon a loan of 20s.
or 21s.,
for six months, between yours and the English, and between yours and the private pawnbrokers in Ireland ?—It
would be a difficult thing to make a comparison with the English pawnbrokers; the broken time in the English Act of Parliament makes their rate of interest lower than ours upon the poor, because they charge for half months ; whereas, if it runs three days in the month with us, we charge for the full month.
For instance, if an article is pledged for 10s.
upon the 1st of May, if the person comes to release it upon the 4th of June, he has to pay two months' interest in Ireland, that is Ad.
in our office.
454.
Mr.
Lucas.]
Whereas, in England, he would only have to pay a month and a half?—He
would not have to pay one month and a half till seven days had elapsed.
455.
In the case you have mentioned, lending on the 1st of May, and redeem¬ ing on the 4th of June, for what period would he pay ?—One
month only; until it comes to the seventh day, they cannot charge in England.
Then, on the seventh they can only charge for half a month in addition to the month; that is, if you come on the 8th of June, you must pay a month and a half interest in England, and they cannot charge for the second month till it passes the fourteenth day; so that, if you come on the fifteenth day, you are to pay for two months; in fact, the English pawnbroker's profit is a great deal less even than the profit at the Montde Piete' in Ireland.
But there is this additional advantage in the Mont de Piete, that any profit we derive from the poor in Limerick, after paying expenses, will go entirely to the poor in the hospital themselves.
456.
Chairman.]
Will you state what you consider to be the best remedies which could be applied to the evils you have observed in the system of pawn-broking as conducted in Ireland at present?—I
consider the chief evil is goods being sold before the end of 12 months, and not being by law enabled
legally
